Ohio type 54

[White Skies]

Hello friends. I am an Ohio resident that does a small show on the hill at my family farm every year of 1.4g. The last 2 years iv bought wholesale by the case and am starting into electronic firing. Getting bigger and more experienced every year I am wanting to step into the 1.3 world soon. I have bought Dave's step by step videos. I have tracked down contingency plans. The problem is I keep hearing ohio is not putting out any more type 54 license therefore I have not sent in an application yet. If anyone has any information to help me get 1.3 in my show without having to hire out would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

[Npntransistor]

Hello friends. I am an Ohio resident that does a small show on the hill at my family farm every year of 1.4g. The last 2 years iv bought wholesale by the case and am starting into electronic firing. Getting bigger and more experienced every year I am wanting to step into the 1.3 world soon. I have bought Dave's step by step videos. I have tracked down contingency plans. The problem is I keep hearing ohio is not putting out any more type 54 license therefore I have not sent in an application yet. If anyone has any information to help me get 1.3 in my show without having to hire out would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!


As I have learned the type 54 is the least of the difficulties in ohio. The required exhibitors permit and liability insurance are the hard/expensive part.

[djsmurf]

Hello friends. I am an Ohio resident that does a small show on the hill at my family farm every year of 1.4g. The last 2 years iv bought wholesale by the case and am starting into electronic firing. Getting bigger and more experienced every year I am wanting to step into the 1.3 world soon. I have bought Dave's step by step videos. I have tracked down contingency plans. The problem is I keep hearing ohio is not putting out any more type 54 license therefore I have not sent in an application yet. If anyone has any information to help me get 1.3 in my show without having to hire out would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Welcome to the forum. As Npntransistor said the type 54 process in Ohio has not proven difficult so far. I had a meeting with the ATF a few weeks ago and there was no mention on them not issuing type 54 permits. It is possible people are confusing the moratorium on new permits to sell fireworks.

I would take the time to sit down and read over Ohio state firework laws. You do not need any state specific permits to obtain your type 54, you do however require state permits, AHJ inspection, and insurance to legally use anything other then smoke bombs and sparklers in Ohio. Yup our laws suck.

I would suggest you join a club or local display company. NEOPG is an option. Let us know how the 54 permit process goes if you decide to send it in.

[Npntransistor]

Here is a link to ohio revised code pertaining to fireworks laws.
Alot to absorb but it really is informative.

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/3743

[JoeR]

What part of Ohio are you in?

[White Skies]

What part of Ohio are you in?

Thanks for all the good info so far. I will hopefully be sending my application in this week. I do have a couple other questions before I'm comfortable sending it. My closest in state contingency is well over 100 miles. I'm actually closer to Kellner's in PA. Can I use an out of state? Also I contacted my sheriff's department about the finger print card and they said they only do electronic now and can only send it to 2 different places. I forget now what exactly he said but he sounded pretty unsure of him self. I'm located about an hour south of canton. Thanks again.

[djsmurf]

You found in state contingency storage for 1.3 in Ohio!! I guess I never really looked that hard but it did not seem easy. Yes you can use out of state storage. My agents actually requested it for shows in eastern Ohio as my storage in NW Ohio was to far away. If you PM me where your from I should be able to help with the ink fingerprinting. The ATF does not accept electronic prints currently.

[displayfireworks1]

You are one hour and forty minute drive from Kellners Fireworks. Even if you live in one state you can use contingency in a neighboring state. Send your application in. The ATF fireworks license knows no state boundaries unless you have the limited license. This is why I encourage people to get the Type 54. The Type 54 allows you to purchase anywhere in United States and legally transport the product across state lines. The state of Ohio can not stop you from obtaining the ATF fireworks license. The state of Ohio can regulate the storage of fireworks. If you are going for a Type 54 you will not be storing fireworks anyway. This fingerprinting thing is done by private business now. You are going to have use some problem solving and search around in your area to see what is available. Don't listen to rumors and unfounded speculation about what is going on in Ohio. All you have to do is get the fingerprints done and send the application in as I outline in the DVD. You are almost there do not stop now.'

[White Skies]

Djsmurf the only place in Ohio I could find was Lynch Imports in Cincinnati. They were very helpful. I even tried a couple local blasting companies with no luck. Seems like no one wants the attention of being on another federal list in my opinion but can't really blame them.
I got word out (social media) that I needed a fingerprint card done and a buddy that happens to be a deputy offered to do them for me this week. So from the sounds of it I should be sending my application in this week.
Without the help of Dave and everyone I have encountered so far in the Pyro world I would most likely not have ever made it this far.
Thank You!

[djsmurf]

Awesome White Skies, sounds like your on the right path. Best of luck.

[White Skies]

Ok another quick question to make sure I have everything right and don't mess up something simple before sending this out.
I have a contingency to attach, but as far as the magazine description worksheet on the application do I need to fill it out completely or simply check contingency plan and go on with it?

[CTPYRO]

you do not need to fill that out unless you own your own mag then the ATF would want that. If your contingency is with a 1.3 supplier then the letter is all you need to send in

[White Skies]

Ok that is what I wanted to assume but then again with this stuff I hate to just assume. Thanks!

[Weinz34]

Good luck and keep us posted. I'm pretty much in the same boat with ya. I just had my interview. I'm sure yours will be here sooner than you think!

[White Skies]

Today I went to the Holms county sheriff's department to get my fingerprint card done. They were very helpful and it didn't cost me a thing. My packet will go in the mail first thing in the morning. I am now considering joining a pyro group soon to get to know some of the people in the pyro world and hopefully get some good experience. I have printed out the northeast Ohio group application and will be sending it out soon.
Here is a link to my last year's show. It is in 2 parts. My show was a mess for what was planned. The weather really screwed me with heavy air holding the smoke and the moisture in the air made my cd skip like crazy.
https://youtu.be/pZpJOFTBP9M

[Northern Sky]

You do know that you can't pull a permit in Ohio without an Ohio Lead Shooter Licence right?

[White Skies]

No I looked over the Ohio laws and I seen I need an ohio fire marshal shooter card. But i I have not come across the lead shooter licence yet. Thank you for the info. That's why I joined the post and am wanting to join a group. Im the guy that shoots a show a year for family and friends that's always had a thing for fireworks. I know iv still got A LOT to learn.

[CTPYRO]

The shooters test is pretty simple.. a lot on safety and distances.. multiple choice.... that's how it was here in CT and actually Rhode Island. Usually have to get sign off's on shows from a Lead Tech to validate you have shot shows

[Weinz34]

White skies don't get discouraged with Ohio's laws. They are just there to keep everyone safe. There are plenty of ways to pursue this hobby if you want to. Northern Sky is right, you do have to be a lead shooter to pull a permit. But you don't have to be a lead shooter to shoot fireworks. There are a few options.
You can become a registered assistant under any "Licensed Exhibitor" as they are called here in Ohio and shoot underneath their license on any shoot with them. Even if you wanted to have a private shoot on your property. As long as the exhibitor is there and you have permission i.e. a permit from the local fire/police. (They must be present during the entire shoot.) I know someone will say you have to have a minimum of 1,000,000 insurance but they is where research into insurance laws begin in, if you are on private property doing a private shoot (Not in commerce...) does the property insurance cover you....well it's up to the insurance provider and if you have a 1 million dollar umbrella on your homeowner's policy and they don't specifically exclude fireworks you technically are covered aren't you. (Ohio homeowner's policies typically don't exclude fireworks since it is illegal to shoot fireworks....but if you ask them they will add it to your policy when you renew.....)You also have have a minimum of 3 hours in service training and another FBI background check.
http://www.com.ohio.gov/documents/fire_COM5024.pdf

Also, there is a shooters school coming up this weekend that you could attend to get the minimum training. You can also hook up with a crew there and start shooting with them. (They will even register you that same day if you have your head on your shoulders, show some enthusiasm and help out a lot....)
There are also a few clubs/guilds that you can join.
Getting the exhibitors license in Ohio involves a test of 3 section of the NFPA code book 1123, 1124 & 1126 version 2006. But the kicker is you need to:

"Submit a letter of proficiency in the handling/discharging of product for exam type applying for (i.e. Type I must have firework and pyrotechnic experience). The letter(s) shall be endorsed with the signature of an Ohio licensed exhibitor, manufacturer or wholesaler of fireworks in Ohio, or a copy of a valid exhibitor license issued by another state."

http://www.com.ohio.gov/documents/fire_FireworkexhibitorDMA81306.pdf


This is the part that discourages everyone because it seems impossible....the funny part is that before 9/11 you didn't need this....So in all reality you could get a letter from someone who has their exhibitors license who has never fired off a single firework in their life as long as they applied for an exhibitors license prior to 9/11. I'm not saying Ohio's law is silly I agree it's there for everyone's safety I'm just saying there are ways around it so that part doesn't make sense to me...Why does the state leave it up to any individual to decide if they are proficient in the handling/discharging of fireworks. I mean there are probably some people in Ohio who have handled/discharged fireworks as much or more than anyone on this Forum (No offense to anyone im not talking about me...) who don't have any exhibitors license... just saying...

I'm sure i got something wrong in my message. Just download the Ohio Redbook and start reading it's all in there.

http://www.com.ohio.gov/documents/2013fireworksredbook.pdf

As you know no one ever shoots off a single firework in Ohio unless they are a licensed exhibitor....It's the law!

[White Skies]

Just a quick update. My interview is this Thursday and sounded on the phone like it should be a quick painless meeting. Does anyone think I'll have it in hand by July? I have been busy with work and have not yet researched the state laws to the extent I should but I appreciate all the information. The state laws do seem like a but much. I figure iv had local police and fire at my shows before with no permits and no problems. Maybe ill just have to drink a few less beers before the show this year. Then again with my new firetek system I can just sit on my butt and push buttons. :cool:

[displayfireworks1]

I predict you will have the ATF license before July 4th. I will recommend that you drink no beer before shooting the display. Let us know how you opinion on the FireTEK system after the display. If I am reading correctly what you posted , you are already shooting a display in the state of Ohio without a permit and without a state certification. It also sounds like the local fire department etc are at the display. I think it is obvious this is a non-profit display for your own enjoyment and the enjoyment of those invited guest. Let me further caution you not to post the exact location in Ohio, not that the local officials will do something about it. Other fireworks people in Ohio will not like this and they will try to stop it.

[Npntransistor]

Just a quick update. My interview is this Thursday and sounded on the phone like it should be a quick painless meeting. Does anyone think I'll have it in hand by July? I have been busy with work and have not yet researched the state laws to the extent I should but I appreciate all the information. The state laws do seem like a but much. I figure iv had local police and fire at my shows before with no permits and no problems. Maybe ill just have to drink a few less beers before the show this year. Then again with my new firetek system I can just sit on my butt and push buttons. :cool:

Dave I'M willing to bet the local police and fire brought the beer and not acting as "AHJ" at this event.
Just because you can get away with it (more power to you) don't make it legal. :rolleyes:

[White Skies]

I hope your right about having them! I usually try to hold off on drinking before the show. Yea the shows have been mostly funded by yours truly and family. This year were taking up donations and got a good start so far. I just downright enjoy doing it. I have family that shoot the big county show and always schedule around theirs. The last thing I would want to do is keep someone from a better show. Making me want to have better shows.

[White Skies]

Well the ATF agent just left. It went about as smooth and fast as it could. He mentioned a couple things he was unsure about that he is checking on that I thought maybe I could get the answer here. First is the state exhibitor card. will not having this keep me from getting the type 54? Also as far as translation do you have to transport them in a marked DOT vehicle that can be locked with a pad lock? I know in one of Dave's video he went over this and suggested that you didn't if it's not a business. The agent thought otherwise but could not give me a sure answer.

[joewad]

Dave I'M willing to bet the local police and fire brought the beer and not acting as "AHJ" at this event.
Just because you can get away with it (more power to you) don't make it legal. :rolleyes:

I don't "pop a top" until after I hear my last lift charge. Then I drink the first one and taste the second one, then repeat as necessary. Occasionally I break out the funnel.

[displayfireworks1]

At White Skies , however my comments are in general for those with similar circumstances
.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzap3iuONqA&feature=youtu.be

[White Skies]

Thanks for the quick response Dave. First off my bad for calling him an agent. I guess that hit a soft spot like it does me when people call a magazine (firearm mag) a clip. Lol what ever the hell the guy is.. Also everything I mentioned in this post is stuff he brought up. I sat there shaking my head and kept my mouth shut like you suggested. He said up front to me he don't do many firework applications so he was unsure and that if I could reach out for answers I should. On the bright side he thought I'd get the permit in 2 to 3 weeks.

[displayfireworks1]

I will be the first to admit I call a firearm magazine a "Clip". I going to tell you how communication between individuals gets misinterpreted. I would be willing to bet if I talk with this Inspector, he would tell me, you brought up the subject of the state certifications and DOT vehicle. You say he brought it up. The same would happen if he answered one of your questions. Three days from now he would say he never told you that , he said something different. Its very common. The part I will believe is, he may not do many of these hobbyist ATF fireworks license. There are some states there are fewer than 10 fireworks license in the entire state. They are not use to seeing private individuals apply for this license.
Irrespective of how the interview is interpreted. don't call them. Sit back and wait and please tell us when you receive the license.

[djsmurf]

Well the ATF agent just left. It went about as smooth and fast as it could. He mentioned a couple things he was unsure about that he is checking on that I thought maybe I could get the answer here. First is the state exhibitor card. will not having this keep me from getting the type 54? Also as far as translation do you have to transport them in a marked DOT vehicle that can be locked with a pad lock? I know in one of Dave's video he went over this and suggested that you didn't if it's not a business. The agent thought otherwise but could not give me a sure answer.

Not having your Ohio exhibitor licence will not keep you from getting your 54 permit, you will need one if you want to shoot 1.3 in Ohio. You only need to worry about DOT if your being paid for the show, if not the rules do not apply. Now defining "Paid" is an entirely new question.

[displayfireworks1]

Defining "Paid" or in commerce is not another issue. I will find time to post another video on this issue. I'll give you a clue, giving someone a sandwich and a can of Pepsi is not paying them.

[White Skies]

Ok. I think I got it all straight for now then. Ohio fire marshal exhibitor permit is my main thing for now. Anyone been through this that has some tips?
I am not really worried about defining being paid. I somehow pay out of pocket for every show I do. I take donations and sell koozies. But that don't cover it enough to put me in the green.

[displayfireworks1]

I believe I addressed this before regarding this being in the display business and a fireworks hobbyist concept, I will cover it again. This is my opinion on it. I will tell everyone that has an ATF license. Having the license gives you permission to be in possession of the product. Whatever happens past that point you will always be a licensed individual in legal possession of 1.3 fireworks. There are a few individual that will try to minimize you having a ATF license. Saying things like "What good is it because you can't use it" etc. And they will cite all these reason to raise doubt and confuse you. Stay focused don't get lost in bar-stool arguments.
.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUwBt1rN3Y0

[White Skies]

Right on Dave. Your right. I'm only 26 years old and never had any experience in fireworks except for what I taught my self. I'm not in this for a business. I just enjoy the bang. Maybe one day I could consider taking a business approach being so young. But not any time soon.
Thanks for everything so far to everyone.
I'll be at pyrofest this weekend so maybe if I see you around and your free I'll introduce myself.

[djsmurf]

Ok. I think I got it all straight for now then. Ohio fire marshal exhibitor permit is my main thing for now. Anyone been through this that has some tips?
I am not really worried about defining being paid. I somehow pay out of pocket for every show I do. I take donations and sell koozies. But that don't cover it enough to put me in the green.

Join a club or shoot for a local company. It will allow you to get you assistant permit. Shoot some shows so you can get a letter of proficiency (needed for Exhibitors License) Then your good to go.

http://www.com.ohio.gov/documents/fire_COM5024.pdf

[CTPYRO]

You can't " legally " discharge 1.3 just because you have a 54 and by saying this to people is really false information.....Shooting pyro in PA is much different and lax then most other states.... that is a fact