Legality of donations to cover show cost?

[tfb5701]

I'm starting the process to get my ATF license. One issue I haven't found much on is about other people helping pay for a 1.3 show.

I understand that I can't be in business or make money from doing a show and I don't intend to. The only shows I plan on shooting are for family/friends around the 4th of July at the annual family 4th party. However, what if another member of the family wants to pay for part or all of the consumable cost for the show. An example might be if I plan on buying $1,000 worth of shells for the show and insurance though the 1.3 distributer is $130, state permit is $75 per show. If a family member wanted to pay $1000 to cover the materials or $1205 to cover the materials, insurance, and permit, would that be legal?

[JoeR]

As far as I know, any sort of compensation puts you into commerce, but like anything different people have different feelings about how they justify different things. That being said if a pile of money showed up at your door and you decided to shoot it all off in fireworks, that is on your I suppose.

[Bazerk]

Would you have to turn a profit in order for it to be a problem? I'm not sure on this but I believe that is a loophole.

[PyroJoeNEPA]

You are dealing with two different entities & issues with this question. ATF & DOT.
ATF 54 grants you the ability to purchase, use, store, etc. 1.3 product.
The DOT Department of Transportation regulates how you get said 1.3 product from point "A" to point"B".
"In Commerce" is a DOT issue----If you are receiving compensation of any kind for the show [some people would go as far as to say "don't have any food or beverages provided by the user" that puts you in the position of receiving compensation for the show, thus you are "In Commerce" which requires vehicle placards, CDL/Hazmat license, etc.
If you have a case of 3" shells & you are taking them to a club shoot you can transport them in your vehicle without placards & CDL.
That same case of 3" shells--if you were taking to an event shoot site would require placards & CDL. Again, note this is all DOT regs.
ATF allows you the privileged of accessing the product--not transporting it.
Whether you make a profit on a show or not is not a consideration. If compensation [of any form] is received, you are considered "in commerce"
Now, what you do if your Uncle Henry puts a few hundred dollars in your hand because you are a great nephew isn't the same as giving you monies towards your show expenses---but, that is for you to determine [and hopefully not have to explain].

[tfb5701]

Thanks. I hear what you guys are saying. I already had thought through the "uncle Henry" logistics but I just wasn't sure what the "by the book" regs technically said about it.

[displayfireworks1]

You collecting money from friends and family to put on an annual fireworks display for the July 4th holiday is not being in business. This is very common that family members pitch in to help pay for the annual fireworks display. Don't over think it. It does not sound like you are selling a service to me.

[yoshisbar]

Atf inspector told me "you can by pass a hat around" 100% legit. I didn't ask the question, it was just a "what if I wanted to do this" thing they hear people ask..

[josereyn74]

The quick and dirty I've come to gauge things by in by IRS guidelines. If you do this to make a profit and claim income/expenses, then your in business. If people "choose" to give you money to help defray costs, and you don't require payment to attend or view the event, then it's not a business. Therefore if it's not a business, no DOT regulations. That is my opinion.