ohio type 54 contingency storage.

[Npntransistor]

Ok so I've been beating my head up against ohio fireworks laws.
Contingency storage to satisfy the type 54 requirements is intended to be accessible enough so that in the event a problem arises the fireworks could be stored in a reasonable amount of time. I do not understand where relevant distance to storage from my home address matters. For instance if I shoot in pa and my storage is in pa but I'm an ohio resident.

Next thing I ran across in Ohio Revised Code
3743.45 Purchase of 1.4G fireworks from licensed manufacturer or wholesaler.

(B)*No licensed manufacturer or licensed wholesaler shall sell 1.3 G fireworks to a person who resides in this state unless that person is a licensed manufacturer, licensed wholesaler, or licensed exhibitor of fireworks in this state.

Amended by 131st General Assembly File No. TBD, HB 64, §101.01, eff. 9/29/2015.

So regardless if I had a type 54 I can't even purchase product within the state anyway.

[Bazerk]

Not sure on the state law but the distance of the storage magazine to the location of the "business" is what matters. If you applied for the license in PA and used a PA address as the business address on your application then it would work. However, if your putting you residence in Ohio as the primary address of the business than that would exceed a "reasonable driving distance" and thus wont work for contingency. They dont care where you are shooting the product. They dont want you buying in one state and then crossing the country and have no place to store it when you get there even if thats not what you are doing. There is no way for them to be sure that just because your buying in PA that your going to shoot in PA ya know?

[djsmurf]

Npntransistor, where in Ohio are you from? As you have found out Ohio laws regarding fireworks stink. There are plenty of places that sell 1.3 product outside of Ohio that are in reasonable driving distance. With the type 54 being a federal permit, you can have one in Ohio and then purchase and shoot product as you said in PA. Like me if we want any chance of shooting in our home state we need to be licensed exhibitors as well. I'm going through the process of getting both so if you have questions shoot me a PM, I'll help as much as I can.

[Npntransistor]

Kellners is the closest I found @ 110 miles about 1hr 45min drive. I understand why it's written like that but alas like most fireworks laws it just don't make no good dang sense :rolleyes:

[Bazerk]

Kellners is the closest I found @ 110 miles about 1hr 45min drive. I understand why it's written like that but alas like most fireworks laws it just don't make no good dang sense :rolleyes:

I think this distance will be up to your local ATF guy. My magazine is about that same distance away and my guy is telling me that it will be no problem at all.

[Npntransistor]

Yea I was hoping for some feedback on the distance. From my research this seems to be in no man's land between gray area and perfectly acceptable if that makes any sense.

[Northern Sky]

First off, welcome to the forum neighbor. I'm about an hour from you. If you notice in my signature below I am a member of NEOPG which is North East Ohio Pyrotechnics Group. I'd be happy to show you the ropes.

[Npntransistor]

First off, welcome to the forum neighbor. I'm about an hour from you. If you notice in my signature below I am a member of NEOPG which is North East Ohio Pyrotechnics Group. I'd be happy to show you the ropes.

Looks like I have a contact! Good deal, Sent you a pm.

[Westpapyro]

Your first post, I believe you can be a licensed seller from other states that sell to Ohio residents? Al from fireart is working on getting his license to sell to Ohio 54 residents? And I think kellners is already able to sell to Ohio residents?
Does that help?

[Npntransistor]

Your first post, I believe you can be a licensed seller from other states that sell to Ohio residents? Al from fireart is working on getting his license to sell to Ohio 54 residents? And I think kellners is already able to sell to Ohio residents?
Does that help?

That's what I gathered also. Ohio 1.3g sale laws are almost like PA 1.4g laws

[Northern Sky]

I'm not sure about Kellners current current status for Out of State shipper. Last year they hadn't renewed when we inquired. We currently purchase a good bit of 1.3G product from Starfire Corporation who jumped through Ohio's hoops for us. It's a perfect match for some of our venues.

What other company would take the time and make the investment for a "potential" return? The Terrizzi family is one of a kind.

I know, they are not advertisers so no plugs have been made of implied, "Just the Facts Jack".

[Npntransistor]

I'm just trying to clarify, If I from Ohio walked into kellners with a type 54 Could I not purchase product?

[displayfireworks1]

The question is do you have your ATF license and if you don't why not? I'll assume you are 21 years of age or older.
.
You are approximately 105.2 miles from Kellner Fireworks in Barkeyville Pennsylvania. You can easily apply for the license. Don't worry about all the Ohio shipper stuff. That only relates to in commerce display. If you are not in commence you can purchase fireworks anywhere you want.
Don't put your mind on step B and C . Step A is to apply for the license not to look for reasons not to apply.
.
Just because you are driving in your vehicle to bring fireworks to your shoot site does not make you a "Shipper" If Kellners is driving the fireworks to your shoot site for delivery that may make them a "Shipper".

[displayfireworks1]

.
http://definitions.uslegal.com/c/commercial-shipper-transportation/
.
According to 49 CFR 375.103 [Title 49 – Transportation; Subtitle B Other Regulations Relating to Transportation; Chapter III Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration, Department of Transportation; Subchapter B Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations; Part 375 Transportation of Household Goods in Interstate Commerce; Consumer Protection Regulations; Subpart A General Requirements], commercial shipper means “any person who is named as the consignor or consignee in a bill of lading contract who is not the owner of the goods being transported but who assumes the responsibility for payment of the transportation and other tariff charges for the account of the beneficial owner of the goods. The beneficial owner of the goods is normally an employee of the consignor and/or consignee. A freight forwarder tendering a shipment to a carrier in furtherance of freight forwarder operations is also a commercial shipper. The Federal government is a government bill of lading shipper, not a commercial shipper.”
.
If you are driving home with your fireworks that you legally own and not in commence or resale you are not a shipper.

[Northern Sky]

Sorry Dave you are miss informed.

If you are a "permitted user" with a 54 you may purchase from ANY 1.3 vendor in the country. Transportation and discharge varies depending on the location of the display.

ANY discharge of fireworks in OHIO is ILLEGAL if not permitted.

To have a permitted display in Ohio: ALL product HAS to be purchased in OHIO or from an OHIO Out of State Authorized Shipper. Commerce has NO BEARING what so ever on legal discharge IN OHIO. Commerce only effects transportation and is a DOT issue not ATF, State Fire Marshal, or Uncle Bob the local cop down the block.

The AHJ WILL inspect all pertinent paperwork including invoices for the product purchased along with Ohio Lead Shooter Card and ALL Assistants Shooter Cards or affiliated shooter identification.

It isn't that hard to shoot LEGALLY. Why do people INSIST on BREAKING the law when it isn't that hard to Follow.

The reason OHIO is a bitch is because there were several DEATHS oh no, did I say the "D" word years ago and Big Brother is trying to make sure to mitigate further damages.

You think OHIO is tough, Shoot a display in Northern Virginia "DC" surrounding area. The Fire Marshals won't let the crews cut the security strapping on the truck unless they are there to count shells and mortars to make sure there are enough guns to fire the product. They inspect racks for security and debris. By debris I am talking about a piece of string in the bottom of a 6 inch gun or burrs on mortar tops. Again, there were deaths in the recent past where 1.3G cakes were manufactured upside down resulting in crew DEATHS. There I go again, The "D" word.

Ignorance is NOT an excuse for the law when all you have to do is GOOGLE it. Just because arrests are that common doesn't make us immune. I'm tired of videos posted on the internet of people doing things with fireworks and showing unsafe "ILLEGAL" things and people thinking they are heroes when there is no injury; then the media blaming the fireworks with some idiot star football player blows his hand off.

A good friend of mine had his 14 year old nephew steal a 1.4 labeled 1.75 salute. You guessed it. He lit the fuse to throw in the air. It was a SALUTE with a black match fuse. Bye Bye hand. Fireworks aren't toys. Don't treat them like they are.

Below was copy and pasted from the STATE FIRE MARSHAL:

Q.) What types of fireworks are illegal to discharge in Ohio?

A.) Firecrackers, bottle rockets, roman candles, and fountains are ILLEGAL to discharge in the state of Ohio. While they may be sold by a licensed seller and purchased by someone over the age of 18, the purchaser must certify they will transport the fireworks outside of the state within 48 hours.

Aerial shells fired from a mortar can only be sold by a licensed manufacturer to a licensed exhibitor who possesses a proper permit. These can only be discharged by a licensed exhibitor with the proper permits issued by local fire and police departments. If you do not have the proper permits, it's ILLEGAL for you to fire off aerial shells from a mortar.

Q.) What types of fireworks are legal to discharge in Ohio?

A.) Sparklers, snaps, glow snakes and smoke bombs are LEGAL to discharge in the state of Ohio. These can generally be purchased anywhere in Ohio and used anywhere in the state. You may want to check with your local municipality for ordinances on when and where these can be discharged in your community.

Q.) What penalties are there for breaking an Ohio fireworks law?

A.) Most first-time violations of fireworks laws are first-degree misdemeanors, punishable by up to a $1,000 fine and six months in jail. Any illegal fireworks can also be confiscated by law enforcement authorities.

Q.) What are the dangers of fireworks?

The Ohio State Fire Marshal says while novelty fireworks (sparklers, snaps, glow snakes and smoke bombs) are legal, they are still dangerous to discharge. Fire officials urge extreme caution when using these items as they can cause severe burns, injuries to the hands, eyes and face, and even blindness or hearing loss.

For Example: The Ohio State Fire Marshal says sparklers burn at up to 1800°, which is hot enough to melt gold.

[Npntransistor]

Ok so to summerize. I could purchase 1.3 in PA but not bring it back into the state unless said conditions were met. I hadn't really looked into bringing them back into the state since with just a type 54 since it wouldn't be useful without meeting ohio guidelines to have a legal event.

Thank you for the info.

[Northern Sky]

Ok so to summerize. I could purchase 1.3 in PA but not bring it back into the state unless said conditions were met. I hadn't really looked into bringing them back into the state since with just a type 54 since it wouldn't be useful without meeting ohio guidelines to have a legal event.

Thank you for the info.

BINGO!

Johnny, tell the man what he has won.
"It's a stay out of Jail FREE card.

[displayfireworks1]

Let the debate begin.
I say a non commerce Ohio Hobbyist private holder of an ATF license can buy fireworks anywhere he wants and shoot them in the state of Ohio. To simply he can drive to Kellners buy 1.3, drive back and shoot them in Ohio. As long as it is not a commerce display. I am sure he will need a fireworks permit.
There are too much false information in Ohio.

[Northern Sky]

Let the debate begin.
I say a non commerce Ohio Hobbyist private holder of an ATF license can buy fireworks anywhere he wants and shoot them in the state of Ohio. To simply he can drive to Kellners buy 1.3, drive back and shoot them in Ohio. As long as it is not a commerce display. I am sure he will need a fireworks permit.
There are too much false information in Ohio.

When you pass your Ohio Lead test Dave, or show me in writing from the STATE of Ohio, we'll continue the discussion. Until that point I will post . . . . . .

Have you looked at my signature at the bottom here? I shoot in OHIO regularly in commerce and not in commerce.

Hey, I can solve this discussion.

Put your money up. Post a thread guaranteeing that you will personally pay any and fines and legal fees pertaining to any not in commerce firework offence.

]DEBATE ENDED.

[displayfireworks1]

People said I could not get fireworks enthusiast ATF licensed in Ohio unless they obtained the same certification you have and I proved that wrong. Lets give it some time and see who responds. I see on your signature you are a member of a fireworks club in Ohio. There really going to mad at me if I am correct on this one. LOL

[Npntransistor]

I'm only chiming in as an ignorant bystander. I'm not taking any sides just interpreting what I am finding

I've been sifting threw ORC.
3743.65 Possession, sale and use restrictions.
(A) No person shall possess fireworks in this state or shall possess for sale or sell fireworks in this state, except a licensed manufacturer of fireworks as authorized by sections 3743.02 to 3743.08 of the Revised Code, a licensed wholesaler of fireworks as authorized by sections 3743.15 to 3743.21 of the Revised Code, a shipping permit holder as authorized by section 3743.40 of the Revised Code, an out-of-state resident as authorized by section 3743.44 of the Revised Code, a resident of this state as authorized by section 3743.45 of the Revised Code, or a licensed exhibitor of fireworks as authorized by sections 3743.50 to 3743.55 of the Revised Code, and except as provided in section 3743.80 of the Revised Code.
(B) Except as provided in section 3743.80 of the Revised Code and except for licensed exhibitors of fireworks authorized to conduct a fireworks exhibition pursuant to sections 3743.50 to 3743.55 of the Revised Code, no person shall discharge, ignite, or explode any fireworks in this state.

Seems pretty clear a permit of some capacity stated is required to possess fireworks period.

[Northern Sky]

People said I could not get fireworks enthusiast ATF licensed in Ohio unless they obtained the same certification you have and I proved that wrong. Lets give it some time and see who responds. I see on your signature you are a member of a fireworks club in Ohio. There really going to mad at me if I am correct on this one. LOL

What does this mean?

And who wrote it?

Finally, what country are they from to use English as a second language and butcher this so badly?

No LOL

I feel badly for this person.

[CTPYRO]

This is an interesting debate. Ohio seems to be much like CT with the exception that you can purchase 1.3 out of state and store it legally and shoot it providing you have gone through the hoops to have the show legal.. permit... insurance.. fire detail....

[Westpapyro]

Calm down boys!
Dave you are right about the getting your 54 part. There was a perception from people and states that if you were from Ohio or New York you could not get a permit or license (54). But as you pointed out that permit/license is a federal thing and state lines did not matter.
But now you are talking about discharging 1.3 fireworks which now falls to the states to decide. This is not a perception, it is Ohio law. Ohio's laws may suck for the hobbyists but they are law!
You two can debate till your blue in the face, Federal laws are one thing and Ohio laws are another.

So if the debate team is keeping score:
Dave 1
Dane 1
Lol

[displayfireworks1]

You right I forgot about getting fireworks enthusiast ATF license in the state of New York. That was another one some said was not possible.
I am now stating the State of Ohio firework shipper laws are no applicable to private holders of ATF fireworks license in non commerce. Using the Kellner Fireworks (no Ohio shipper certificate) example, he can not deliver the fireworks to you irrespective of the commerce issue. You can drive to Pennsylvania to pick them up yourself if they are being used in non-commerce as long as you have an ATF Fireworks license.

[CTPYRO]

It makes no difference where you get them from if you can't discharge them legally......

[Npntransistor]

Not arguing just debating keep in mind.
The way I read ohio law is that yes I can go to PA and buy 1.3 but as soon as I cross back into ohio I need to comply with state law and have a state permit (of said nature) to possess said devices. Now whether I need to buy from a licensed shipper or not I suppose is the wording still in debate if I do have said permit. If anyone can site this law that would be appreciated.

[Northern Sky]

Calm down boys!
Dave you are right about the getting your 54 part. There was a perception from people and states that if you were from Ohio or New York you could not get a permit or license (54). But as you pointed out that permit/license is a federal thing and state lines did not matter.
But now you are talking about discharging 1.3 fireworks which now falls to the states to decide. This is not a perception, it is Ohio law. Ohio's laws may suck for the hobbyists but they are law!
You two can debate till your blue in the face, Federal laws are one thing and Ohio laws are another.

So if the debate team is keeping score:
Dave 1
Dane 1
Lol

For the record, I couldn't give a rip about the ATF part Chuck. I only commented on the Ohio concern. I/we know quite a few Ohio residents with federal licenses.

So it's Dane - 1
Ohio resident with ATF Permit and no Ohio Lead, no display permit because not in commerce display,no Fire Marshal, no Fire department, illegal out of state product, no money for defense lawyer, No friends because they don't want a criminal association. How many -s is that 7? I don't know.

[Northern Sky]

Put your money up. Post a thread guaranteeing that you will personally pay any and fines and legal fees pertaining to any not in commerce firework offence.
]DEBATE ENDED.

Why is nobody chiming in on this?
Where is the open check book to support your claim?

I'll put my check book up that, if my guidelines are followed through with, and no additional costs will be incurred or sentences levied, even if there is an accident because insurance would be available too presumably with the permit process.


There, I changed the font and size so it looks important. That's gotta be the clincher, right?

[CTPYRO]

I have to side with Northern Sky... he has pointed out a lot of factual information. In CT you also have to have a CT shooters license to put a display on.. among other things. I have my CT cert but only to do shows for Bay as a Lead Tech

[Npntransistor]

Can we stop attacking each other? Look you can't just bring fireworks into ohio and have a party. We get that. You need a permit of some capacity just to have them. Now can I buy them from kellners and bring them into ohio even though kellners isn't a licensed shipper and I theoretically had all permits to possess them in this state? Neither one of you are qualified to do so. So I await a response

[Northern Sky]

If they are not an authorized Ohio out of state shipper then no. I checked a while ago and the link I had doesn't work anymore. I see if I can find another link. You could always call them and inquire.

Additional info sent via PM.

[Westpapyro]

I think if you get to understand the permit process and what the fire marshal looks for by joining neopg then you will be able to answer your own question. Come hang out and learn from guys that are 100% legal.
Chuck

[displayfireworks1]

I believe the fee for a out of state "Shippers" fireworks certificate into the state of Ohio is $2750.00 per year in case anyone is curious.
.

[djsmurf]

Is there a list of authorized Ohio out of state shippers?

[displayfireworks1]

Here is the application if anyone is interested. Remember out of state here means into Ohio
.

http://www.com.ohio.gov/documents/fire_2006ShipRenewAppDMAFORM.pdf

[displayfireworks1]

Here is the Ohio Exhibitor License. Note on the application they ask if you have an ATF license. Remember me saying which one comes first?
.
http://www.com.ohio.gov/documents/fire_FireworkexhibitorDMA81306.pdf
.
.
Here is exhibitor employee. Again note the question about ATF license
http://www.com.ohio.gov/documents/fire_COM5024.pdf
.
.
Here is the permit. This is the section about company supplying the fireworks and is a licensed exhibitor required? This is most likely the part where the interpretation is only approved fireworks must be used by certain suppliers.
.
http://www.com.ohio.gov/documents/fire_COM5141.pdf
.
.
The question is when is a licensed "Exhibitor". not required?
.
Here is exhibitor testing link. I would imagine if you took the PGI and passed it you should be able to pass this also.
http://www.com.ohio.gov/documents/fire_2016fireworksschedule.pdf

[pyrotech5]

the ohio license application you linked to does not say you need a atf first or that you need one to get the license. it asks if you have one also asks if you have concealed carry permit. Do i need to get a concealed carry first? follow the 6 instructions at the top. you only need a letter saying you know what you are doing signed by a Ohio licensed exhibitor.

i think the last time i looked in here you were telling a atf 54 user permitted newbie in new york that it is ok to put class b in their trunk and drive through new york city without a hazmat escort.

if you are going to pretend to be a atf 54 users permit expert on the internet you should tell people you do not know enough about state laws to be giving advice before someone ends up in jail or facing big fines.

[displayfireworks1]

I think that Conceal Carry Permit question in Ohio may be there to see if you may have already went through a background check. In New York if you are driving from a fireworks distributor to your shoot site , that is legitimate and reasonable thing to do. If you are just riding around with explosives in your vehicle with no directional purpose in any state not only is it unreasonable that is risky a catastrophe. I am not a pretender of ATF Type 54 , I am a promoter of it. I have a 5 year plus track record of licensing fireworks enthusiast across United States. A hobbyist holder of an ATF license and transporting fireworks has been addressed by the Pyrotechnic Guild International. i have to believe what they report.
Here is the link addressing "Not in Commerce"
http://www.pgi.org/convention/transport.php
.
I love this song, its about people that make fireworks. But its about fireworks hobbyist also.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrddqgcjagQ
.
.
There have been people I helped get an ATF license that end up in the Display Fireworks business but I don't recommend it. Once you are "In Commerce" it all changes.

[CTPYRO]

I don't recall Dave ever saying you could drive through NYC with Class B without approval from the DOT.. going through NY state would be different. Like when I drive from Extravaganza in NY.. into CT.. Mass.. and into NH

[displayfireworks1]

There are a handful of fireworks people in the state of New York that have been trying to stop me from getting fireworks enthusiast licensed in that area. They want to keep it just the way it is. the way it is , that they are the only ones they want to see have an ATF fireworks license. They always come up with extreme examples. Thanks to fireworks distributors in Pennsylvania I am getting these enthusiast licensed.
If you believe what the PGI has posted on that link, you do not need permission, placards or a CDL Drivers License if you are a hobbyist anywhere in United States. You do need a Type 54 ATF license or higher. I believe what the PGI is saying and relay that to people I help get licensed. It looks like they ran it by their legal adviser.
The problem is the private holder of an explosive license are few and not always addressed in local laws. How often does non-commerce use of explosives occur in United States?

[CTPYRO]

I don't think having your 54 will keep you out of trouble driving within the NYC Limits nevermind NYC itself. I don't event want to go down that road though. I'm not sure how those that say live on Long Island travel over the bridges with 1.3 even with a 54..... I know that when Bay ( Head Quatered in L.I ) brings show product from the Island to CT to our mags the Throgs Neck is shut down to traffic with a police escort so the truck can come over the otherside. I can't imagine what would happen to someone if caught even with a 54 going over the bridges. Maybe I'm thinking too much on that topic though

[Northern Sky]

Dave, I think you are missing the point many of us are trying to convey.

What good is having an ATF permit for product WE can not legally use?

It's like having a Ferrari that can do 500 miles an hour but has to run on railroad tracks. It wasn't until; last year the sparklers were illegal in New York State.

And if we join a club we can shoot LEGALLY on their licenses on permitted displays.

Having a Type 54 gives us the "Federal permission" to spend our money and nothing else. Most of us can't even take the product we spend our money on out of the store because is can't be stored overnight outside of an APPROVED magazine.

Sure we can buy is and use the product at PERMITTED open displays but that's it.

For people like you and me depending on what state we live in, one of which boarders you, OHIO, we can go to KELLNERS open shoot night, buy 1.3G product and shoot it there 1 day a year.

Other that that it is ILLEGAL to shoot without STATE and LOCAL authorization. In several states just owning 1.4G product is a major offense.

I'm trying to be nice here.

Sell your DVDs to people who can use what they pay for or direct them in directions they can.

Why do you want to get US in trouble.

I just don't get it.

[CTPYRO]

There is a reason why PA has the most 54 permits..... it's just much easier to discharge in PA then anywhere. Northern Sky is correct though and I've also said the same..... buy all the 1.3 you want but it ( the 54 permit ) doesn't give you free reign to set it off and this is where the newbies who want to get the 54 misinterpret what the permit is for. I mean the ATF most likely will ask where you plan on shooting product.. my inspector asked me during the interview. He did like the fact that I shoot for display company and also am a member with the NHPA. I also made him aware I was going for my CT shooters license which I've now have since last May

[displayfireworks1]

Of all the people I helped get through this ATF licensing procedure not one person has told me, now that I have this license what do I do?
.
In many cases these newly ATF licensed people advance more than I ever envisioned. They are buying fireworks firing systems, putting on pyro-musicals ,obtaining state pyro certifications , working for professional companies , attending events like Pyrofest, starting their own display companies (which I advise against), building their own magazines , getting CDL with Hazmat Endorsements, joining the PGI and I am helping people that do and do not advertise with me sell more fireworks and equipment.
.
Over the years I have been doing this, I see people go from watching my fireworks videos on YouTube and go on to do everything I listed above. This is all happening at a speed that took years to do prior to the internet. People in the fireworks business never tell me to stop, people not in the business but want to exert their influence on it, want me to stop. Why would that be? Remember, don’t talk about prices, don’t talk about making fireworks, don’t talk about overloaded fireworks, don’t talk about firecrackers, you are not competent to handle 1.3 fireworks, do controlled group fireworks buys and stop displayfireworks1. It is all about control of the enthusiast market and direction. It has nothing at all to do with the ATF license, fireworks permits or state certifications. It has to do with stopping me and my influence in pyrotechnics.
.
Permits, state certifications etc. In my assessment these are obstacles that need addressed after you obtain the ATF license. I know it defies license logic, my assessment is everything beyond Consumer Fireworks starts first with the ATF license. I live in the real fireworks world, not everyone has fireworks permits and state certifications. People that sell fireworks know all of this and so do I.
.
I may have said this before, I approached a few key people in the industry, and if I said their names you would recognize them. They are not even part of this website. I ask them to feel free to tell me to stop doing, showing or saying something. Until then I have to keep moving on advancing the fireworks hobbyist that watch my videos. If you looked at the type of person I inspire to get this ATF license, a large majority of them are already driven and knowledgeable in other areas of their life. Once they obtain the license they use those same life skills in the hobby and continue to grow and master it. It pleases me tremendously to be part of it.

[Northern Sky]

Of all the people I helped get through this ATF licensing procedure not one person has told me, now that I have this license what do I do?
.
In many cases these newly ATF licensed people advance more than I ever envisioned. They are buying fireworks firing systems, putting on pyro-musicals ,obtaining state pyro certifications , working for professional companies , attending events like Pyrofest, starting their own display companies (which I advise against), building their own magazines , getting CDL with Hazmat Endorsements, joining the PGI and I am helping people that do and do not advertise with me sell more fireworks and equipment.
.This is a natural progression. I'm glad you can take credit for encouraging growth.
Over the years I have been doing this, I see people go from watching my fireworks videos on YouTube and go on to do everything I listed above. This is all happening at a speed that took years to do prior to the internet. People in the fireworks business never tell me to stop, Why would they care what hobbyists do? people not in the business but want to exert their influence on it, want me to stop. Why would that be? I'll tell you line by line. Remember, don’t talk about prices,Supply and Demand. If there is a special product out there and EVERYBODY wants it, suppliers run out of stock don’t talk about making fireworks, It is dangerous and in many instances ILLEGAL. Read the papers.don’t talk about overloaded fireworksHELLO. ILLEGAL. If they are in the US and ILLEGAL that product will be GONE. Now if the product is available from one of "your authorized suppliers", Go MAN. Do your job and sell every one on the planet , don’t talk about firecrackers, if they are legal crackers have at it. I'm not a cracker guy but if you are enjoy them. The PGI Mega String is a thing of beauty. The pile of crap left after popping off a million or two crackers is a sight to see if you are into Red Confetti , you are not competent to handle 1.3 fireworks,WELL I saw the farm video with the 8 inch mortars strapped to the back of the trailer so. . . . do controlled group fireworks buys Go man, set up a group buy to save everybody some $.and stop displayfireworks1. Make him promote safety and keep us legal.It is all about control of the enthusiast market and direction. It has nothing at all to do with the ATF license, fireworks permits or state certifications. It has to do with stopping me and my influence in pyrotechnics. Refer to above.
.
Permits, state certifications etc. In my assessment these are obstacles that need addressed after you obtain the ATF license. I know it defies license logic, my assessment is everything beyond Consumer Fireworks starts first with the ATF license. Sorry, I disagree. It starts with safety and laws I live in the real fireworks world, that's one theorynot everyone has fireworks permits and state certifications.Agreed People that sell fireworks know all of this and so do I. Right and they make a living selling fireworks. When the product leaves the store their hands are clean. It's on us after that.
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I may have said this before, I approached a few key people in the industry, and if I said their names you would recognize them. They are not even part of this website. I ask them to feel free to tell me to stop doing, showing or saying something. Until then I have to keep moving on advancing the fireworks hobbyist that watch my videos. If you looked at the type of person I inspire to get this ATF license, a large majority of them are already driven and knowledgeable in other areas of their life. Once they obtain the license they use those same life skills in the hobby and continue to grow and master it. It pleases me tremendously to be part of it. You should be pleased with my growth then. You were a contributor.

Well Dave, I will admit that I am, one of those people. I watched your videos in my early pyro stages. I've worked Pyrofest the first and last year but was tied up the second. I have been a PGI member for 6 years and have attended the PGI events for those 6 years. Each of those years I have worked on both 1.4G and 1.3G displays. I was a leader in the display in Butler that won the Unlimited 1.4 Category. I've been a "key" on several other PGI shows including the Grand Public last year and the next to last display the previous year that, In my opinion showed how a Masterful Pyro Musical is done on a budget, far outperforming the Grand Public in artistry because there was NO wasted product. I shoot electrically using the Cobra system with the biggest show being the PGI at Butler using 105 18Ms. I shoot professionally too.

LEGALLY

If you promoted shooting safety and legally the way you police vendors and locations listings of your "members", I'd be your biggest supporter. I've been around here for 5 years.

It's too bad this is listed as "OHIO 54" and sadly a lot of AWESOME Pyros have gone the way of the DODO BIRD but we will see how this plays out.

What do you say?

Can we grow together?

[displayfireworks1]

The website has to stay profitable, this is why I need the support of people in the business. I have the benefit of learning from other fireworks websites and journals that failed before me. As far as I can tell I am the last United States based website for the enthusiast. If I keep working hard and start bleeding money, I will get added to that list of failures. I am trying to not let that happen. The website is free to enthusiast, but if it is free to enthusiast and people in the business both, that is a recipe for failure. I know it is a hindrance at times for the members. I made contracts with my current advertisers and have to respect that. Any business can sign on to pyrotalk.
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A member having his or her state of location gives credibility to the members. It also helps us to network with each other. I’ll add it if they don’t. If I add it in, and they keep changing it and what they say starts to have a predictable theme, of course I get suspicious. I find people with multiple registrations all the time. Their motive is to stop my progress or sabotage the website.
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Safety and Fireworks, just because I video when things go wrong, think of all the times I video when things go right. Both are beneficial and learning opportunities. I could easily hide all the times things go wrong on video but I don’t. I’m not perfect and I live in the real pyro enthusiast world. This is what it looks like.
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There is no doubt as you put it, “a lot of awesome pyros have go the way of DODO BIRD”. I own some of that and keep it going. Not a good thing. It’s going to take professional medication service and two cases of beer to work that one out. I’ll buy the beer. I am not beyond being part of changing that. There are many issues that need worked out.
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Northern Sky, you are always the voice of reason. Now, speaking of mistakes, when you helped on my Collier display that one year, you put that Cobra module on the wrong number in my finale. I wish I had that on video. LOL You still won’t admit to that. LOL

[Northern Sky]

The website has to stay profitable. . . . . Any business can sign on to pyrotalk.
Gotta keep the lights on.
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A member having his or her state of location gives credibility to the members. It also helps us to network with each other. Not everyone is interested in networking like we are. Credibility? My user made is Northern Sky From Northwestern PA. What about that screams credibility?I’ll add it if they don’t. If I add it in, Why? it is their profile? If they say there Cleveland fans, no matter how many times their profile is changed Pittsburgh is too good for them.and they keep changing it and what they say starts to have a predictable theme, of course I get suspicious. Of what? They don't want to advertise where they are from? What difference does it make where they claim to live. They aren't I find people with multiple registrations all the time. Their motive is to stop my progress or sabotage the website. What is there to be suspicious of, somebody is going to move with out telling the Forum?
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Safety and Fireworks, just because I video when things go wrong, think of all the times I video when things go right. Both are beneficial and learning opportunities. I could easily hide all the times things go wrong on video but I don’t. I’m not perfect and I live in the real pyro enthusiast world. This is what it looks like.
Congratulations the first three words in this paragraph are perfect; Safety before Fireworks period! The only thing that might precede safety,some might say, is the law. That is the "Real World"
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There is no doubt as you put it, “a lot of awesome pyros have go the way of DODO BIRD”. I own some of that and keep it going. Not a good thing. It’s going to take professional medicationmitigation maybe Lol service and two cases of beer to work that one out. I’ll buy the beer. I am not beyond being part of changing that. There are many issues that need worked out. I love beer (I'm a third Pittsburgher) but two cases. Since fireworks and beer aren't a good combination this might take a while. I did enjoy the hospitality at the Collier Club.
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Northern Sky, you are always the voice of reason. Thank you. I try.Now, speaking of mistakes, when you helped on my Collier display that one year, you put that Cobra module on the wrong number in my finale. I wish I had that on video. LOL You still won’t admit to that. LOL

Well, join the club, I've been blamed for plenty of things even when absent from said event. It wouldn't be the first time a Cobra Module was channeled incorrectly and have had batteries die. Hey, I have been at displays where people have forgotten to sync the Audiobox, Forgotten to turn on or Arm modules and even more than one time where the lead couldn't figure out why a show wouldn't start on an unarmed remote.

None of these are either legal or safety related. I will confess to being GUILTY of one or more of the above and yes, there was video notice I said was video:rolleyes:.

[davidlynch]

OK, I only skimmed this but it seems like the original question was: if I live in Ohio, can I go buy 1.3g fireworks from Kellner's?

Sure. You can do that, if you have an ATF license/permit. If you're not in commerce, you can throw that stuff in your trunk and drive it back across the state line into Ohio.

What now?

Well, now you've got a problem.

You can't shoot 1.3g fireworks in Ohio without a permit. You can't store fireworks in Ohio unless you have properly permitted storage, which you don't. You can't get a permit unless, among a whole bunch of other things, you purchased from an Ohio licensed manufacturer/wholesaler or someone with an Ohio out-of-state shippers license. It's right there are the top of the permit application - where did you get your fireworks? What's their Ohio-issued license number?

The other issue is - one of the items on the checklist the AHJ must fill out is - did the fireworks arrive in a properly placarded vehicle? Well, if you're not in commerce, you're not ALLOWED to placard. So, it would appear that OSFM bars displays not in commerce.

Can they really do that? Nope, not so much. Are you going to sue over it? I'm not. I'm just going to keep sending the check every year to stay on the out-of-state shippers license list so when folks want to buy fireworks for permitted displays in Ohio I can sell to them, and even deliver (though that's a PUCO thing, among other things). They even require that I confirm permits before I make the sale. This makes even less sense because in Ohio the permit application isn't complete until after the display and walkthrough. I just do my best to comply - if someone tells me they're shooting a show in Ohio, I ask for a copy of their permit (which is by necessity as part of the process only partially complete) and keep it on file. Is OSFM ever going to come across the state line and ask to see these? I would be beyond astonished. But, you know, whatever.

[Bazerk]

OK, I only skimmed this but it seems like the original question was: if I live in Ohio, can I go buy 1.3g fireworks from Kellner's?

Sure. You can do that, if you have an ATF license/permit. If you're not in commerce, you can throw that stuff in your trunk and drive it back across the state line into Ohio.

What now?

Well, now you've got a problem.

You can't shoot 1.3g fireworks in Ohio without a permit. You can't store fireworks in Ohio unless you have properly permitted storage, which you don't. You can't get a permit unless, among a whole bunch of other things, you purchased from an Ohio licensed manufacturer/wholesaler or someone with an Ohio out-of-state shippers license. It's right there are the top of the permit application - where did you get your fireworks? What's their Ohio-issued license number?

The other issue is - one of the items on the checklist the AHJ must fill out is - did the fireworks arrive in a properly placarded vehicle? Well, if you're not in commerce, you're not ALLOWED to placard. So, it would appear that OSFM bars displays not in commerce.

Can they really do that? Nope, not so much. Are you going to sue over it? I'm not. I'm just going to keep sending the check every year to stay on the out-of-state shippers license list so when folks want to buy fireworks for permitted displays in Ohio I can sell to them, and even deliver (though that's a PUCO thing, among other things). They even require that I confirm permits before I make the sale. This makes even less sense because in Ohio the permit application isn't complete until after the display and walkthrough. I just do my best to comply - if someone tells me they're shooting a show in Ohio, I ask for a copy of their permit (which is by necessity as part of the process only partially complete) and keep it on file. Is OSFM ever going to come across the state line and ask to see these? I would be beyond astonished. But, you know, whatever.

Well that settles that! Thank you Mr Lynch.

[Npntransistor]

When I originally asked I suppose I should have clarified. I was asking with the thought of usefulness of a type 54 in the near term, say attending a permitted event in PA and taking 1.3 product from kellners,ect.

I had already come to the conclusion shooting or possession in ohio near term not part of the equation.

Just want to assure everyone I fully understand the seriousness of 1.3 and associated laws :cool:

[Northern Sky]

Another thought is to give money to the lead/permit holder to pick up product for you. They might get better pricing thN you do if they buy in any kind of. Volume.

[Npntransistor]

Another thought is to give money to the lead/permit holder to pick up product for you. They might get better pricing thN you do if they buy in any kind of. Volume.

Or I could just forget the whole thing and go to my local shows.
Something about picking my own product and taking to a gathering as a contribution seems much more enjoyable then someone else figuring everything else out for me and just handing over cash ;).

You seem to be very against getting a type 54.

[CTPYRO]

I don't think he is implying that at all... just an alternative. I think if it's something you really want to pursue then do it, but do it knowing everything that comes along with it. When I attempted my application 5 yrs ago I was no way ready for what the ATF was asking of me. I didn't really do any background as to where I could purchase ( I only had heard of Kellners which is hours away from me ) and that was a stopping block. So I heard about the NHPA and decided to join where I could shoot 1.3 legally under the clubs permit as well as be more informative on 1.3.... I then joined a display company shortly after ( also a lead shooter ) and going into my 5th year. So last year I said I'm ready for the application.. had my contingency letter from the club as well as one for IPI out in PA and the rest is really history

[Npntransistor]

Completely understand where you're coming from and the sediment many others have expressed. And appreciate the insite.

[Northern Sky]

I don't think he is implying that at all... just an alternative. . . . .

Thanks CTP.

Npntransistor, you have a unique opportunity. Available to you is a KILLER club in the area that will show you the ropes and how to navigate them smoothly. If you'd rather go it alone, SALUTE.

[Npntransistor]

Thanks CTP.

Npntransistor, you have a unique opportunity. Available to you is a KILLER club in the area that will show you the ropes and how to navigate them smoothly. If you'd rather go it alone, SALUTE.

Not trying implying that at all, if I wanted to go lone wolf I wouldn't be attending the neopg meeting this saturday. Hard to judge online what someone's intentions are. Just conveying the vibe I'm getting.