Timing of cakes

[Ornery Cuss]

Hey all, I am an amateur that puts on shows for a large family get-together each July. Each year gets a little bigger and more intense. Last year was my first wireless show. This year I am planning to use the Pyro Ignition Control software. I am trying to get more precise in my timing, not anywhere near a pyromusical, but at least trying to time rack and cake endings with song endings. I have watched several videos of the same cake done by different people online, and noticed significant differences in the length of these cakes. For example, Saturday Night Special by Brothers seems to run anywhere from 47 to 56 seconds. Is this usual? Do they really vary that much out of the same factory? Or are other factors involved that I am not aware of, like moisture content, age of the firework, etc. Please enlighten me with your years of wisdom that I might know better how to plan. It is difficult to time a show if you don't know how long a cake will run!

Thanks in advance!

[displayfireworks1]

My experience is Consumer Fireworks lack that type of consistency. How are you fusing your cakes , in other words when the wire makes it to the product tell me what you do between that wire and the fireworks item?

[Northern Sky]

Welcome to the forum.

The most consistent part of fireworks is their inconsistency. Lol

What I have found useful is to fuse cakes backwards so the finale fires first, if they have finales. The most noticeable part of cakes is the first and last shot. I'd rather three or four shots in the beginning be timed closely vs individual shots.

[PyroJoeNEPA]

The most consistent part of fireworks is their inconsistency.

This is, undoubtedly, the most accurate statement anyone can make!!! There are so many variables with 1.4g product--different batches, quality of fuse, poor assembly. etc.
One thing that you might want to consider [if you have the ques to do it with] is to break down several of your cakes so it is not a "one fuse fires all" item. Say you have a 25 shot cake--5 rows of 5---you can cut & remove the fuses joining the rows & insert an ematch, imatch, or Talon on each row--5 ques and it will be much more predictable--plus, you don't have to fire all the rows of the cake consecutively--you can stagger the shots between different cakes---lots of cakes have the last row "all at once"--so you could set it up to fire a bunch of those together as a finale or "false finale".
There is a lot you can do ---I would suggest also buying a couple different types of fuse--there are so many different burn times you could tailor your cakes to do whatever you want.
NOTE--I said all that assuming you would know the safe & proper way to do a modification on a cake. If you do not, then disregard everything I have said, or ask someone that has the knowledge & training to be able to help you.

[Rocketshooter]

Your best bet is to use cakes from the same production batch ( the same case or cases). Even this is no guarantee however.

[Ornery Cuss]

Thanks for all the responses. displayfireworks1, I am using talon igniters as close to the cake as possible without cutting into the cake. I know that the lead time could be cut here, but I would rather allow for that lead time than get into the cake. I was really curious about the time between the first shot and the last shot on the cake. I can easily understand small differences in time, but 16% seems like a lot of difference, and 9 seconds is just a little too much dead time for my taste, so I guess I will have to plan for starting one before the last one is through to eliminate the down time, OR, I may set up a cremora or five that I could fall back on to fill in any gaps. PyroJoeNEPA, While I have watched my share of videos on cake modifications out of curiosity, I will not be going that route. I am an HVAC tech, and work is so busy around the 4th that it is all I can do to find time to set things up without adding more projects. That is why I am planning my show this early, while business is slow. I do appreciate your suggestions, though, maybe that will come if I ever make it to retirement or change careers.

[displayfireworks1]

At Northern Sky that is a great idea fusing those cakes starting with the finale part of the cake. Then its like an opener for each press of the button.
At Ornery Cuss, you may never get the timing you desire with Consumer Igniters, we are going to have to move you into electric match.

[Ornery Cuss]

At Ornery Cuss, you may never get the timing you desire with Consumer Igniters, we are going to have to move you into electric match.

You may get me there Dave, but several years from now. Baby steps, baby steps, but I take a step or two each year. I was hand lighting through 2012, with no music at all, made my first wholesale purchase and built my first racks in 2012, added music in 2013, made my own switchboard and shot wired with nichrome wire hand-wrapped igniters in 2014, gave away that handmade system and went wireless with a much improved music system in 2015.

[Rick_In_Tampa]

At Northern Sky that is a great idea fusing those cakes starting with the finale part of the cake. Then its like an opener for each press of the button.
At Ornery Cuss, you may never get the timing you desire with Consumer Igniters, we are going to have to move you into electric match.

This will be my first year using a wireless remote firing system with talon fuses. I'm really looking forward to getting away from trying to daisy chain multiple 8' long boards.

However, I keep hearing a lot about electric match and I'm wondering what the difference is between what I just bought and electric match? Why is electric match so much better?

[Rocketshooter]

You can insert e-match directly in a cake and get instantaneous ignition. With talon style igniters you still have to light a fuse which gives you a variable ignition time. E-match will give you more precision in your firing times, especially when using things like mines and comets.

[ilovecrackle]

This will be my first year using a wireless remote firing system with talon fuses. I'm really looking forward to getting away from trying to daisy chain multiple 8' long boards.

However, I keep hearing a lot about electric match and I'm wondering what the difference is between what I just bought and electric match? Why is electric match so much better?

Talons is the "legal consumer" version of electric match. Just a clip igniter with a burning filament wire that ignites the fuse. Electric match, think of a match head on the end of a wire. Electric match has combustible pyrogen compound at the end that ignites. Electric match can be inserted directly into the lift of a shell or cake for instant ignition where as talons, you would need to insert a piece of quick fuse and attach the talon to the quick fuse to get your near instant ignition.
Electric match also requires your 54 to "legally" purchase and requires proper storage where as talons can be purchased by anyone and can be stored anywhere.

It really just comes down to your needs. If you are doing a tighly scripted pyro musical then e-match is what you want to use.
Me, I don't do tightly scripted pyro musicals so even though I have access to e-match and currently have some, I don't really use it. Talons suit my needs.

I hope this helped some.

[Pyropug]

There is a consumer e-match mfg. MJD fire wire initiators. Used 100 last not one fail.

[ilovecrackle]

There is a consumer e-match mfg. MJD fire wire initiators. Used 100 last not one fail.

Oh yeah, I forgot about those. lol

[Rick_In_Tampa]

Talons is the "legal consumer" version of electric match. Just a clip igniter with a burning filament wire that ignites the fuse. Electric match, think of a match head on the end of a wire. Electric match has combustible pyrogen compound at the end that ignites. Electric match can be inserted directly into the lift of a shell or cake for instant ignition where as talons, you would need to insert a piece of quick fuse and attach the talon to the quick fuse to get your near instant ignition.
Electric match also requires your 54 to "legally" purchase and requires proper storage where as talons can be purchased by anyone and can be stored anywhere.

It really just comes down to your needs. If you are doing a tighly scripted pyro musical then e-match is what you want to use.
Me, I don't do tightly scripted pyro musicals so even though I have access to e-match and currently have some, I don't really use it. Talons suit my needs.

I hope this helped some.

It did! Thanks for the clarification. I don't have an ATF 54 (yet!) so it doesn't look like electric match is an option for me now anyway. If the talon's work as advertised, I'll be tickled pink. Last year it rained all evening and my daisy chained fusing didn't weather it very well. Ended up doing a lot of hand lighting.

When I do get my ATF 54 and I'm able to buy electric match, will I need a different type of firing system? Or does it have the same 2 wire setup that will fit into a standard firing system?

[Rocketshooter]

Any firing system will work, same 2 wire setup. In fact, ematch requires less power to set off so you can set off up to six wired in series from any standard system. Great for stringing out 3 or 4 cakes and setting them off on one cue. They do have non ATF ematch available now, I would look into this as an option if I were you. Dave has a video on them.

[Rick_In_Tampa]

Any firing system will work, same 2 wire setup. In fact, ematch requires less power to set off so you can set off up to six wired in series from any standard system. Great for stringing out 3 or 4 cakes and setting them off on one cue. They do have non ATF ematch available now, I would look into this as an option if I were you. Dave has a video on them.

Awesome! Thanks for the info!!