Shooters Course Near Long Island, New York

[Blackdevil77]

I just recently purchased Dave's Video's on getting your ATF license with the forms. Before I fill anything out and send it in, I want to take a shooters course or a training course. I can not find one going on near me. I e-mailed Grucci and when they didn't reply, I gave them a call and they said they don't have any courses scheduled and they will probably be scheduled around March/April. I don't really want to wait that long to send in my forms, so I was wondering if there are any other good courses in my general area that would give me a certificate of completion etc. Also in the process of the training course/shooters course, I want to try to find out anything I can about local contingency storage.

July4Ever is about 85 miles from me and Dave said the ATF usually wants it within 100 miles so it would probably work, but I'd like to find something closer if I can.

Also something I read somewhere on the internet but can't find where. Is it true that New York doesn't allow contingency storage for fireworks? If that's true, that leaves me with quite a challenge. New York can really be a pain sometimes.

Sorry to go off on tangents, but basically I am asking above all else, is there any training courses or shooters courses going on anytime this summer near Long Island that I would be able to sign up for?

[J's12talk]

I don't know of any at this time. A couple things you should do is call up the NY state dept. of licensing and certification and have them send you the own and posess paperwork. Also call the ATF and have them send you the type 54 permit paperwork and orange book. They will send you an up to date form along with everything else you will need.

[Blackdevil77]

Ok I'll make those calls sometime this week. I've sent out 4 e-mails last week to 3 different firework vendors and companys about contingency storage and shooting courses, and one to the ATF for more info and haven't got back one e-mail

[mici59]

I think youre going to have a hard time finding shooters courses this time of the year, being so close to the 4th of July. and from the experience Ive had is most of the classes are run in the spring time. Ive never dealty with Gruccis though, so Im not sure how they work.

[Blackdevil77]

So I gotta wait until next spring for the shooters course. Do you guys think I would have enough time between next spring and next fourth of July next fourth of july to get my license? I'm in New York so I have extra stuff I have to do also. It just sucks I gotta sit around until next spring before I can make any further steps to get my license.

[mici59]

Heres the requirements that ive heard you have to follow. You need 3 years shooting experience with a licensed company and you have to have them vouch that you have this experience when you send your application in. Then you have to take the NYS Pyro test and pass that. Im not sur ehow often they give this test either? If you can just go take it? or they only give it certain times of the year. By doing all of this you will be able to apply for your NYS license. I fortunately have worked for a company long enough where Im grandfathered in.

My best advice to you is wait until the spring, find a shooters school and get in good with a company. You can have as much fun shooting shows for a company places and you dont have to worry about the headaches and all of the paperwork. Then after you get enough ecperience you can work on gettng your license.

[Blackdevil77]

Heres the requirements that ive heard you have to follow. You need 3 years shooting experience with a licensed company and you have to have them vouch that you have this experience when you send your application in. Then you have to take the NYS Pyro test and pass that. Im not sur ehow often they give this test either? If you can just go take it? or they only give it certain times of the year. By doing all of this you will be able to apply for your NYS license. I fortunately have worked for a company long enough where Im grandfathered in.

My best advice to you is wait until the spring, find a shooters school and get in good with a company. You can have as much fun shooting shows for a company places and you dont have to worry about the headaches and all of the paperwork. Then after you get enough ecperience you can work on gettng your license.

3 Years! That sucks. Not because I don't want to shoot for a professional company, but usually on the fourth I have family obligations and obviously that's the busiest day of the year for them. If that's what it takes, then I guess that's what I gotta do.

[J's12talk]

3 Years! That sucks. Not because I don't want to shoot for a professional company, but usually on the fourth I have family obligations and obviously that's the busiest day of the year for them. If that's what it takes, then I guess that's what I gotta do.

Thats what your going to have to do or move to a different state. Once again NY State will save you from yourself. How dare you think that you can be responsible.

[Blackdevil77]

Thats what your going to have to do or move to a different state. Once again NY State will save you from yourself. How dare you think that you can be responsible.

It's so frustrating. New York always takes things to the extreme. I can understand a training course, some shooting experience or some other classes etc, but 3 years, thats insane!

[fanfireworks]

--- OK Here IS the Deal in NY I thought I had told you most of this in your other post. Hope this info helps ----

#1 As far as I know you are still allowed to co-inhabitate a magazine owned by someone else in NY you still have to pay the magazine fees as if it were you own to the Dept of Labor and they will issue a certificate to you.

#2 Call Grucci back of call Bay and ask to work for them. (I would call grucci) These two companies are huge and shoot tons of displays - if you have a clean background (which you will need for a license) maybe one of them would have something for you.

#3 As for July4Ever, I am not going to say to much here but you may want to check - I am not sure they are in business right now. Check in that for yourself…

#4 To get your ATF and NYS license you will need to prove you have a place to store it. No exceptions. Most firework companies will not give you the storage your looking for because there is too much liability.

#5 The 3 year rule that was talked about is for the new display operators license - NOT A state explosives license there is a big difference

# 6 Once you apply for a get an ATF and State license you can get the shooters certificate by taking the test.

#7 You said you emailed several companies and got no response - Expect that this time of the year from now till mid July - Its busy season as you can tell - I am writing this at 2 AM.

#8 NY has 2 different explosives licenses a Manufacture/Dealer OR the Own and Posses (O&P) You need one of them along with your ATF License / permit.

#9 YES - your right the law in NYS suck and can be confusing. I don’t see them getting any easier anytime soon. You will find that in some case the ATF rule and NYS State rule are very different on the same issues. I have been in the fireworks business here in NY for over 18 years now - 11 years as a company owner and years prior to that working for what was at the time - the largest fireworks manufacturing company in NYS.

The pyro shooters certificate is for persons shooting fireworks for licensed companies. It does not give the right to buy sell or use fireworks in any other way. They do have a test But I am not sure they are using it because it was too hard. I know a couple of the people involved with writing it and have seen some of the questions - It is hard - it has questions to things you will never need to know even if your in the business for 50 years. Much harder that the Massachusetts test.

Two Things that I am not sure of that may work out in your favor are as follows: #1 if your just going to buy and shoot fireworks for yourself if you even need the pyro certificate? #2 If the new rule requiring a minimum of $1,000,000 for insurance on a shoot would apply to you??? I suggest you contact the NYS Dept of Labor in Albany and ask these two questions - BE SURE TO DO IT IN WRITING AND GET THE ANSWER IN WRITING.
If they tell you that you will need the insurance - I suggest - You move to another state or find a new hobby! I wont get into the insurance cost here but it’s not cheep. If you are interest in insurance info let me know - just be sure your sitting down.

I really do think you should work for a company for a while to get experience that you can prove prior to applying for a license . They can deny you because of lack of it.. I don’t know of anyone including myself that is licensed and did not work for a company prior to it. Another thing to check out would be look for a blasting company near you - they will have magazines - they may even have a location where they would be willing to rent you a small spot to put your own. It is much better for you to have your own .


Hope this is helpful.

Scott

[Blackdevil77]

--- OK Here IS the Deal in NY I thought I had told you most of this in your other post. Hope this info helps ----

#1 As far as I know you are still allowed to co-inhabitate a magazine owned by someone else in NY you still have to pay the magazine fees as if it were you own to the Dept of Labor and they will issue a certificate to you.

#2 Call Grucci back of call Bay and ask to work for them. (I would call grucci) These two companies are huge and shoot tons of displays - if you have a clean background (which you will need for a license) maybe one of them would have something for you.

#3 As for July4Ever, I am not going to say to much here but you may want to check - I am not sure they are in business right now. Check in that for yourself…

#4 To get your ATF and NYS license you will need to prove you have a place to store it. No exceptions. Most firework companies will not give you the storage your looking for because there is too much liability.

#5 The 3 year rule that was talked about is for the new display operators license - NOT A state explosives license there is a big difference

# 6 Once you apply for a get an ATF and State license you can get the shooters certificate by taking the test.

#7 You said you emailed several companies and got no response - Expect that this time of the year from now till mid July - Its busy season as you can tell - I am writing this at 2 AM.

#8 NY has 2 different explosives licenses a Manufacture/Dealer OR the Own and Posses (O&P) You need one of them along with your ATF License / permit.

#9 YES - your right the law in NYS suck and can be confusing. I don’t see them getting any easier anytime soon. You will find that in some case the ATF rule and NYS State rule are very different on the same issues. I have been in the fireworks business here in NY for over 18 years now - 11 years as a company owner and years prior to that working for what was at the time - the largest fireworks manufacturing company in NYS.

The pyro shooters certificate is for persons shooting fireworks for licensed companies. It does not give the right to buy sell or use fireworks in any other way. They do have a test But I am not sure they are using it because it was too hard. I know a couple of the people involved with writing it and have seen some of the questions - It is hard - it has questions to things you will never need to know even if your in the business for 50 years. Much harder that the Massachusetts test.

Two Things that I am not sure of that may work out in your favor are as follows: #1 if your just going to buy and shoot fireworks for yourself if you even need the pyro certificate? #2 If the new rule requiring a minimum of $1,000,000 for insurance on a shoot would apply to you??? I suggest you contact the NYS Dept of Labor in Albany and ask these two questions - BE SURE TO DO IT IN WRITING AND GET THE ANSWER IN WRITING.
If they tell you that you will need the insurance - I suggest - You move to another state or find a new hobby! I wont get into the insurance cost here but it’s not cheep. If you are interest in insurance info let me know - just be sure your sitting down.

I really do think you should work for a company for a while to get experience that you can prove prior to applying for a license . They can deny you because of lack of it.. I don’t know of anyone including myself that is licensed and did not work for a company prior to it. Another thing to check out would be look for a blasting company near you - they will have magazines - they may even have a location where they would be willing to rent you a small spot to put your own. It is much better for you to have your own .


Hope this is helpful.

Scott

Wow thanks for the detailed reply Scott! That was extremely helpful and I will certainly do as you stated calling the department of labor. I'll call grucci back around mid july to see if they can do anything for me. As for storage, I've been googling fireworks magazine rental etc and can't find anything local. Any suggestions of something for me to put into google to find something local? I tried type 4 magazine locator etc and can't find anything, I don't know how or where to look for a local magazine. I was hoping a firework company I would shoot for would be able to help me out finding a place to store my fireworks. The biggest thing I need to find out is the insurance and if its required. That will make or break the whole thing for me.

Again, thank you for taking the time to write that response for me Scott, I appreciate it and it was extremely helpful.

-Mario

[fanfireworks]

other than a fireworks company you may want to look for blasting companies -dont know of any near you but its something to check into. Most likely you wont find magazine storage online - because people that have them not advertise it - security reasons.

You may want to look into renting space - maybe at a blasting company, a farm etc. some place with room and buy or build your own magazine. You can build a type 4 without a lot of work. Just wont be able to store bulk salutes in it.

You can convert a truck box, shipping container or buy a pre built from us explosives storage or tread corp.

Also - if your interesetd in working for one of the companies near you - I would contact them this week -- this is busy time - so if they have work this would be the time to get your foot in the door.

And remember try to get any response from NY State in writing.

[J's12talk]

The first thing the Dept. of Labor asked me for when there inspector interviewed me was for my NY State shooters card. If I could produce my card it was going to be the end of the interview. Maybe it is because I live in Erie county which is the center of hell in NY. I hope it goes better for you.

[Blackdevil77]

Thanks for the responses guys, I'll be giving bay fireworks and grucci a call sometime today or tomorrow.

I have an advantage I didn't even know I had. I work for the town of hempstead which is very politically based and a lot of the job is connected to doing things for my republican club. I'm not very political but part of my club are some very high up guys stationed in Albany. I have one of the guys phone number so ill be giving him a call today to see if he can help me out, answer some questions etc. The guys I work with seem pretty sure they can help me. I'll be doing that in addition to getting those 2 questions answered in writing

[fanfireworks]

The first thing the Dept. of Labor asked me for when there inspector interviewed me was for my NY State shooters card. If I could produce my card it was going to be the end of the interview. Maybe it is because I live in Erie county which is the center of hell in NY. I hope it goes better for you.

They should not have done that. There is NOTHING in NYS law that says you have to have the shooters certificate to be licnesed. Just becauce someone has a nys O&P or manufacture/dealer license does not mean they are going to shoot fireworks in NY.

These licesese are completely seperate.

[J's12talk]

I guess then that you could tell the ATF that you were going to do all shooting out of state and no product would ever be in NY State , therefore you would not even need a NY State own and possess license or a co-inhabitation certificate for someones mag. near your residence. The PPA has a club mag. for members, maybe by being a member and stating that your shooting would be done at their club events you could avoid the nightmare that is NY State. Just throwing it out there. I think I just gave myself a headache!

[bweaver1985]

Try Pyrotecnico. They have 2 offices in NY. They run a nice operation. I'm doing 2 large barge shows with them over 2,000 Shells each on the 4th down in here in Florida.

~ Brian