Official: ground Salute thread

[kraft salute]

This thread is about the fireworks that bring out the inner child in us., our favorite past time that ends with a bang. ground salutes, large firecrackers, and my personal favorite., Cherry bombs. Post all media content that relates to ground salutes, cherry bombs and large firecrackers here. Remember to have fun and stay safe.

[displayfireworks1]

You are jumping right into it on your first post? Do you have something to post for us? Lets see what you have first.

[kraft salute]

In a few days I will have something for everyone to look at.

[countryboy7978]

I'm curious...where did your screen name come from? Not from Wikipedia's supposed AKA name of a cherry.....

[PyroJoeNEPA]

If you are wondering why your thread is pretty much "dead" & has over a hundred views & only 2 posts it might be because of the following:
1. Most people new to a forum usually start with something like "Hi, I am ---- & have been interested in fireworks since----etc. I enjoy fireworks because-------etc. I really like ------etc.

2. Refer to item 1.

3. Refer to item 1.

Just saying. A first post dealing with something controversial and outlawed in the USA [where you say you are from] is not a best "first impression....and, BTW--welcome to the Forum.

[Pyro@Mach13]

In a few days I will have something for everyone to look at.

"few" days is up... what ya' got?

[displayfireworks1]

That is why I responded that way I did. I think he tried to bait us. I must say making firecrackers, salutes and flash powder is not currently against the rules of the forums. You have to expect this sort of post from time to time. Most pyro enthusiast start out with desire to make firecrackers. Of course we are not going to lead someone into harming themselves but we can reasonably talk about salute compositions. When you are new at all of this it is normal to wonder, what is the loudest salute composition, how to make Armstrong's mixture etc. I prefer making firecrackers discussion be done in "Fireworks Manufacturing".
I feel you actually make something more desirable by telling a person you are not allowed to do it or have knowledge of it. Remember there are no pyro school, everything has to be learned by experimentation or searching.

[kraft salute]

I'm not trying to bait anyone. I am waiting for items to arrive. What is the rush?

[countryboy7978]

So Mr. Kraft Salute...what do you want to know? I won't tell you how to make flash, on this forum or any other but if you have legit questions about historical firecrackers then ask. There's quite enough information on making report compositions available and some of it is downright dangerous, especially the videos from Europe.

Let me start by telling you to unlearn 90% of what you read on wikipedia about salutes. I don't know who or where they got their information from but it's pure BUNK!

I'll throw you a bone.... Cherry Bombs, Cherry Flash Salutes, Globe Flash Salutes were made by taking two chipboard cups, usually 5/8" or 3/4" diameter and filling them with a report composition. One cup was punched slightly lager than the other so that they would fit into one another. The cups were coated with adhesive, usually sodium silicate (waterglass) and left to dry, sometimes in wooden jigs. After they were dry, they were placed into a rotating barrel (modified cement mixers and star rollers were used), sprayed with more adhesive and tumbled with red dyed sawdust of varying meshes. This created a snowball like coating around the cup sets that hardened and sealed the flash powder inside. A drill press was set up usually behind a blast shield and a worker would drill the hole to the proper depth and insert a length of visco fuse that was sealed with glue or slurry of some sort. Some factories used clear glue, others used BP slurry or silicate and carbonate adhesives. The dried and finished salutes were packaged for sale in 6s, 12s, 36s and 72s for retail sale. Most all cherry bombs were made this way as were their impact sensitive sibling, the torpedo. True US Cherry bombs were not made from plastic/styrene casings or dipped in any sort of coatings other than what I have mentioned. Later in the DOT era there were some made from paraffin/sawdust(PoSing, Macau), injection molded foam (PoSing Macau/Phantom), and paper mache (China), but these were legal 2 grain or 50mg crackers made after the ban took place in '67.

[kraft salute]

^^^ I learned about all of that when I was a teenager. Where did I ask to learn to make flash?

[countryboy7978]

^^^ I learned about all of that when I was a teenager. Where did I ask to learn to make flash?

So you already know it all then??!! And you don't want to make flash? Then why the hell did you start this thread? Go suck a lemon!

[Knightmare]

I'll throw you a bone.... Cherry Bombs, Cherry Flash Salutes, Globe Flash Salutes were made by taking two chipboard cups, usually 5/8" or 3/4" diameter and filling them with a report composition. One cup was punched slightly lager than the other so that they would fit into one another. The cups were coated with adhesive, usually sodium silicate (waterglass) and left to dry, sometimes in wooden jigs. After they were dry, they were placed into a rotating barrel (modified cement mixers and star rollers were used), sprayed with more adhesive and tumbled with red dyed sawdust of varying meshes. This created a snowball like coating around the cup sets that hardened and sealed the flash powder inside. A drill press was set up usually behind a blast shield and a worker would drill the hole to the proper depth and insert a length of visco fuse that was sealed with glue or slurry of some sort. Some factories used clear glue, others used BP slurry or silicate and carbonate adhesives. The dried and finished salutes were packaged for sale in 6s, 12s, 36s and 72s for retail sale. Most all cherry bombs were made this way as were their impact sensitive sibling, the torpedo. True US Cherry bombs were not made from plastic/styrene casings or dipped in any sort of coatings other than what I have mentioned. Later in the DOT era there were some made from paraffin/sawdust (PoSing, Macau), injection molded foam (PoSing Macau/Phantom), and paper mache (China), but these were legal 2 grain or 50mg crackers made after the ban took place in '67.

Here is someone who knows his fireworks well.

Kraft Salute you should listen to him and others here.


^^^ I learned about all of that when I was a teenager. Where did I ask to learn to make flash?

A few days has passed so what's up?

What do you have?

[NWPA]

Quoting countryboy "A drill press was set up usually behind a blast shield and a worker would drill the hole to the proper depth ". I was just wondering recently about that very statement , While thinking about cherry bombs, odd that it pops up on here. If my old memory was serving me well or it was my imagination that they were actually drilled.. I recall seeing that exact procedure at Tri-State I think it was. Was going to ask this question but thought no, it must of been some other way. I sharpened thousands of drill bits in my life, and know how abrasive the most mundane material can be. Wonder how often they replaced the bit. So I did remember correctly. I wasn't close enough to see if a fixture was being used to hold it or not. Or if they were placed in racks after drilling or not. I can only assume they were. The girl behind the shield was gorgeous, I remember that!

[countryboy7978]

Maybe he will post a pic of any one of the following:

Hitt's Flashcracka
Hitt's Doggone
Radio Flash Salute
Texas Buster 2" Salute
GlittaCrax
Animal Crackers
While Mule
Humdinger Cone
Bulldog Salute


Or maybe they will be some Atomic Salutes with the 3/32" wall tubes and the top fusing, or some of those super common DOT-era DS-1 2" salutes (they are actually 1.75", the DS-2 was 2").....Sorry just having fun with the wikipedia misinformation.

[countryboy7978]

Quoting countryboy "A drill press was set up usually behind a blast shield and a worker would drill the hole to the proper depth ". I was just wondering recently about that very statement , While thinking about cherry bombs, odd that it pops up on here. If my old memory was serving me well or it was my imagination that they were actually drilled.. I recall seeing that exact procedure at Tri-State I think it was. Was going to ask this question but thought no, it must of been some other way. I sharpened thousands of drill bits in my life, and know how abrasive the most mundane material can be. Wonder how often they replaced the bit. So I did remember correctly. I wasn't close enough to see if a fixture was being used to hold it or not. Or if they were placed in racks after drilling or not. I can only assume they were. The girl behind the shield was gorgeous, I remember that!

That's amazing that you got to see that in person. I was born well after the ban of these items (even well past the agro exemption) but American fireworks are a passion of mine and I have studied them rather well. I've heard that some factories had a drill press with multiple chucks so that they could drill several in one time. I don't think they were held by hand, but placed in some sort of a jog to hold them in place. Many of the old US manufacturers still used chlorate in their powders and many of them contained sulfur to make up for the poorer grades of bright aluminum that were used. While the friction generated would likely be little, I wouldn't want to be holding a CB when it decided to ignite during process.

[jknepp1954]

country boy - some pics of those listed would be cool actually! LOL
Oh to have DS1's again! wowser!

[PyroJoeNEPA]

I've heard that some factories had a drill press with multiple chucks so that they could drill several in one time. I don't think they were held by hand, but placed in some sort of a jog to hold them in place.
Slightly different--but along the same line--the "BERAQ" [salute inserts] made in Malta are actually small "mini shells" that are pasted & spiked. Then, an AWL is used [by a machine] to carefully punch a hole thru the salute casing on it's side. This hole then is covered with a very granular black powder slurry for a "fuse" and the "Beraq" are arranged in rows inside the cylinder formers. There is video of this process floating around somewhere--I saw it quite a while ago.

I was fortunate enough to grow up when the cherry bombs were still sold, but most of what I was able to buy back then was M-80's, Ash Cans, Silver Salutes--didn't see that many cherry bombs--fortunate for the mail boxes! HaHa!!!

[NWPA]

I blew the bottom out of my moms stationary tub. [they were concrete then] Filled it halfway with water, lit the cherry bomb, threw it in. Then stood there like a dummy till it went off. The florescent fixture above the sink was blown out as well. My Mom and Dad were furious. Young and stupid. Cherry bombs did a lot of damage in there day, I witnessed it first hand many times between me and my friends. Young folks now a day would probably be the same so its just as well they are banned. But damn, I loved those things.

[PyroManiacs]

Damn... so much information in this thread... Im going to have to read all of it a few times to be able to take it all in, lol.

[pyromustang]

So you already know it all then??!! And you don't want to make flash? Then why the hell did you start this thread? Go suck a lemon! Please lets not start this on this form.countryboy7978 I know it hard hold back and I do not want to make you mad but please lets get alone here. I can remember some bad post that I have made. lets give this new member a chance.

[countryboy7978]

Please lets not start this on this form.countryboy7978 I know it hard hold back and I do not want to make you mad but please lets get alone here. I can remember some bad post that I have made. lets give this new member a chance.

I may have been a bit harsh but I don't actually have a problem with the topic of the post. I am more than happy to talk about what I know regarding American made salutes/firecrackers. What I don't care for are vague posts with no follow up, and someone telling me that they already knew the information, as if I wasted my time posting what I posted.

I would be more than happy to set the record straight because many new pyros (both young and old) use wikipedia as a reference for salutes. The information is not accurate. I've had to prove to several people that M80 doesn't mean 80 grains of powder which is over 5 grams. 5 grams of mil spec flash (64/23/10/3) will not fit in a little 9/16" x 1.5" tube unless it's rammed. M80's were not made that way. The 80 is just a catalog number like the 16 in M16, the 60 in M60 and many other items related to the military. But because wikipedia says so, and other people repeat this as gospel, we will hve a whole generation of pyros believing that to be true. The books by authors like John Donnor (Exploding Fireworks) and Jack Nash (Great American Firecrackers) are great conversation pieces but also greatly inaccurate. The dimensions of the crackers, the supposed compositions used, and even the names of such items are mostly made up. Since most people have never actually seen a real salute, they think it's accurate info. To top that off their are unscrupulous sellers making copies of these items in Nash's books/posters using newly printed tubes or worse, readily available commercial tubes and charging well over $100 for counterfeit items.

So if the OP comes back on and man's up to say what he really wants to say. I'll be more than happy to answer him or anyone else. I simply stated I would not tell people how to make flash. This is not because I'm a goody two shoes, or think I'm better than a newbie, but plain and simple I'm protecting my own ass from any fallout, real or imagined.

Regarding the member who dropped a cherry bomb in the utility sink. We all learn the hard way. A firecracker's power is vastly increased underwater. I'm sure many people have learned this after dropping a 50mg water cracker in their toilet. Let's say they will be shopping for a new bowl.

[PyroManiacs]

Well said Countryboy.

[NWPA]

In regards to Countryboys mention of counterfeit items. Be aware there are a number of sellers, you know where, selling counterfeit labels, tubes and packs. They prey on that nostalgic desire many of us have. I have not added to my collection in quite awhile. Last year I bought a pack of Space Missile brand 1-1/2 by 16 and after doing some searching saw the wraps were totally different then what I had. On examining the label closer it appeared to have been sprayed with diluted coffee. Which is a trick used to age paper. It actually had a faint odor of coffee. Could more then one wrap been used on these, maybe. But when I pulled the label up I could see where a different label had been removed. This revelation came long after the purchase so nothing I could do. I was pissed so went out back and shot them.

[Knightmare]

Regarding the member who dropped a cherry bomb in the utility sink. We all learn the hard way. A firecracker's power is vastly increased underwater. I'm sure many people have learned this after dropping a 50mg water cracker in their toilet. Let's say they will be shopping for a new bowl.

I learned something today!

You mean a normal everyday firecracker which are around nowadays could destroy a toilet? WOW!!!! How is this possible?

[countryboy7978]

http://youtu.be/8NuRWMFRd5I

Hydrostatic shock which is caused by an explosion under water exerts a large amount of force. I have learned this throwing water crackers in 5 gallon buckets.

[pyromustang]

http://youtu.be/8NuRWMFRd5I countryboy7978 you made my day. I would just shut the lid say nothing.:D

[Knightmare]

http://youtu.be/8NuRWMFRd5I

Hydrostatic shock which is caused by an explosion under water exerts a large amount of force. I have learned this throwing water crackers in 5 gallon buckets.


Thanks for teaching me something today!

Never knew this before.