ATF audit and shooting permits

[Melp]

I was about to order some 3" shells for easter when I was talking to a supplier when she asked if I had the permits to shoot this weekend, I told her in the area I was shooting I have asked for permits and they don't give them out. She told me to be very careful because the ATF during a audit will ask for the invoices and the shooting permits were I shot them off at. Has anyone had this issue and what do you do when a area doesn't give out permits.:confused:

[displayfireworks1]

When you have an ATF license you are to keep all of your invoices when you purchase 1.3 fireworks. I know during one of my ATF renewals the Inspector told me to pick one of the times over the last three years I purchased fireworks and show him the receipt. I handed him one. He then requested I explain what I did with them. He did not ask to see the other receipts. I then saw he was copying something from the receipt. I offered to make a copy and give it to him from my printer so he could take it with him.
Using that example you stated. You ask for a permit and they said they don't give them out, That may be actually be a good enough reason to still shoot the fireworks. Technically they did not tell you not to shoot them. Maybe they just do not have a provision to issue permits. In rural communities most of the time they just don't want to give anyone permission to do anything because they are afraid. You live in Michigan, last I heard Consumer Fireworks are legal there certain times of the year. If you are adding small 1.3 product to your display I do not see it as a issue. Remember you are a properly licensed person, I never heard of someone losing their ATF Type 54 because they did not have a fireworks permit. There are many other reasons but I never heard of that one.

[Melp]

Thanks Dave
I was getting a little nervous about buying 1.3 if I didnt have a permit to shoot. In the area I live in I think they are confused between 1.3 and 1.4 the township just keeps saying you can shoot the day before, the day of, and the day after a major calendar holiday.

[countryboy7978]

I can only tell you my experience. During my renewal inspection/audit the inspector asked to see my invoices for all the fireworks I had purchased. I also had a spreadsheet that contained all the required information including date of acquisition, supplier name and permit #, type of pyrotechnic device, and marks of identification (shift/date code). I also had a column that had the date and place I fired them. I got questioned a bit about a certain shoot site but not about a permit. They are more concerned with proper storage than whether you got a permit in most cases. The permit is the state or local's jurisdiction not ATF, but since I'm not a lawyer nor an ATF employee take my advise with a grain of salt. Mileage may differ.

[MIpyro]

Hey Melp, I have asked this before and have heard that they are not worried about the permit issue. They are more worried about what you bought and what you did with it. I have since I got my type 54 using 1.3 in my shows, not a lot to where its like I am doing the downtown Detroit show, lol! but enough to add a little more boom to my show. I have tried contacting the township I shoot in but its so rural they probably don't want to deal with it and say the same thing they told you "day before, of and after a major holiday". That's why I like buying the real big stuff for the open shoots our club has because its properly permitted and insured and you can blow off whatever you want at those.

[Melp]

Hey Mipyro

It was Gerrianne from wolverine that got me nervous, she spent a half an hour telling me I had to have the permits to match the 1.3 that I was going to shoot. Oh well I guess I didnt need a easter show but it has been a long winter.

[MIpyro]

She has told me that too, but after talking with the guys in the club, they do not look at that stuff, Only what you bought and what you did with it. They don't care about permits. She is probably looking at it as a company or an in-commerce type issue, not a hobbyist stand point.

[davidlynch]

I know guys that have been asked for permits before, but only AFTER they threw up significant red flags giving the inspector reason to ask. It is true that they have nothing to do with these state and local issues, but they're LE - and LE is always going to push outside their defined scope. Ask where in the orange book it says you need to provide that, ask them to put it in writing, decline to say more - they'll go away. Or just get permits and be straightforward with them - that's the easiest and happiest path. Make camp up your local jurisdiction's butt until they give you a permit.