firework manufacturing

[ras1986]

Who here knows the laws on this. This would pertain to an average person with no atf license and the said fireworks would used day of manufacturing. If someone got caught building their own 3 inch shell we will say, what kind of trouble could they get into.

[fatcat]

Ras, I know there are websights that legally sell all the necessary items needed to make 1.3 type shells I think that you either had to shoot them the same day that you built the shell or you had to have a proper magazine for storage. The sticking point I believe comes in that I believe you need the license to even transport the "completed items " off your property. In other words as long as you did everything on your own land you would be OK as far as the feds are concerned. Still would have to check with your state and local laws and ordinances. I could be way off base on this. Trying to read the Orange Book is a great cure for insomnia. LOL Probably the best bet is call your local ATF agent and get his/her interpretation.

[NWPA]

I would go straight to the top [ATF] to get the dope on your question. I know too there are sites that have been on line for years that sell all you need to build fireworks but that may not equate with being legal to do so. The laws have changed since I was young and dabbled in making fireworks. No computers, so a lot of trips to the library and all the supplies were bought through the adds in the back of science magazines. Just my own experience and suggestion.

[displayfireworks1]

You do not need a license to make fireworks for your own use. The problems start when you are finished making them or when components are partially complete. Or if you try to sell them, or drive off of your property with them, or if you want to shoot them tomorrow and need to leave them unattended, or need to go to sleep, or give them to me and I need to give them back to you, etc.. LOL It s all true but I say it jokingly.
I may do a future about it and run it by my experts for review before posting. The answer to this question is easy and complex at the same time.

[ras1986]

I build shells all the time. I know the dumb laws about storage and moving them. I build a shell and I shoot them because I do not have an approved magzine. It will be soon tho. I'm sure it's ok on my own property. Build it and shoot it on my property within 24 hours. What about flash powder? Does this proponent change any rules dave?

[pbjacker]

To revive this inquiry let us look at the Orange Book please?

18 USC 1102, Chapter 40, §  842. Unlawful Acts
(a) It shall be unlawful for any person—
(1) to engage in the business of importing, manufacturing,
or dealing in explosive materials without a license issued under
this chapter...

This is taken from page 2 of the 2012 publication of the Orange Book, as currently available from the ATF website.

It seems most references in blogs and forums that I have encountered are based on older versions of the Orange Book. I haven't received a lot of feedback from this community when addressing manufacturing laws, can someone suggest a suitable alternative? I'd be happy to cross post for this forum's benefit.

[displayfireworks1]

Remember when you read some of the Orange Book it references "Business". I made a video about making fireworks and had a link to a letter sent to the PGI in 2007 that outlined a hobbyist making fireworks. Someone running that ATF website removed that page shortly after I linked to that letter. Here is the link.
https://www.atf.gov/press/releases/2007/03/032207-interpretation-pyrotechnic-club-member-activities.html
.
I think the ATF does not like people to know you do not need a license to make explosives for your own use. Note I said explosives. You can make more than just fireworks. As far as making flash powder and shooting it that day. I do not know the answer to that. There is a flash mixture that is sold to display companies. It is often called a A-B Mixture. It comes in two separate plastic bottles one marked A and the other B. It is supplied in varying degree of loudness. It is mixed and placed in a concussion mortar. So what is stop you from getting two bottles and placing Potassium Perchlorate in one bottle and German Black Aluminum in the other and mixing it the day of your fireworks display and shooting it.
I would suggest everyone get some form of an ATF license, not necessarily a fireworks manufacturing one. The nice think about having some form of the license is, if you step over into uncharted territory and the ATF finds out, they will suggest you may need another type of ATF license to cover this activity. As opposed to having no license and in the same territory may get into trouble or bring unnecessary suspicion about your activity.
.
Here is the video I made. Like I said the ATF webmaster removed the link.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WD5KT8z1JcU
.
.
The PGI should have this letter, it would be great of they send it to me. It may be posted out there somewhere

[pbjacker]

I have a copy of the letter. I just spoke with the Atlanta field division office. I asked, "I want to make fireworks for my own personal use. I have a reference from 2007 that states a federal license is not required. Can you confirm this?" She went to speak with a supervisor, returned with, "The current law requires a license even when manufactured for personal use."

I then asked for clarification of 18 USC 1102, Ch 40, Section 841 (Definitions) because it includes "safety fuse" in its definition of "explosives". I asked, "There is a fuse commonly known as Visco, is that considered an explosive by the current law? If it is, would I be required to store that in compliance with Subpart K as well?" She went to the supervisor again, and returned with, "Let me give you the number to the Explosive Industry Program Branch, 202-648-7120."

That's a D.C. number. The Field Office is not comfortable answering, in her words, "technical questions".

Further down the rabbit hole...

[pbjacker]

Sorry, forgot to also mention the 2012 Orange Book reads,(h) “Manufacturer” means any person engaged in the business of manufacturing explosive materials for purposes of sale or distribution or for his own use.

That's 18 USC 1102 Chapter 40, S 841 (Definitions) again.

Seems the fuzz eliminated the personal use loophole.

[displayfireworks1]

I keep telling people to stop calling the ATF with questions like this. Back when my 20 "Friends" turned me into the ATF , the local ATF sent one of my videos to Washington DC headquarters for review by attorneys for a decision. They were smart enough to get permission from above so they did not have to make the decision. The local people that answer the phone are smart enough not to directly answer your question particularly when you want to make explosives. In this day and age of terrorist attacks in United States , who in the right mind would tell a random person calling them , its ok to make explosives. Like I said in my pervious post, the ATF does not like the fact that you do not need a license to make explosives for your own use. Even if you do not need a license to make, you still have to follow storage and transportation rules. For that you need a magazine , a contingency magazine, an ATF license to drive or walk off of your property.
I have to be honest over the years when I get these "Make Fireworks" questions, I become more and more suspicious that "Make Fireworks" means make big ground based salutes and not really make legitimate fireworks products.
If you really want an answer from the ATF about something, don't call them , write a letter to Explosive Industry Branch.

[pbjacker]

OK, thanks Dave! The call vs. letter is exactly my feeling towards the state, I don't want some Joe/Jane giving me the answer they *think* is appropriate. I guess I figured ATF was more friendly/trustworthy given everyone's accounts of interviews and the 2007 letter.

I'm not making decisions on my family's well-being based on word of mouth, I want to see the written letter of the law with supporting references. I'm getting a license, but would like to get started with the simpler processes (i.e. black powder making, for firearms as well as fireworks) before the license is issued - within the constraints of the law.

By the way, I called Mr. Ray Hall of Wholesale Fireworks this morning. He's reaching out to his club contacts in various jurisdictions to get me help with the groundwork for a Georgia club. Best believe when we get up and running WF will get business!

[pbjacker]

Another update... was checking out Fire Art, LLC's website and came across a March 2014 open letter to Michigan FELs (from the Detroit Field Office). It reiterates the ATF's stance that manufacturing for personal non-business use does not require licensing unless transported from manufacturing site, and of course that storage must comply with subpart K. Should be noted however that the letter is specifically "reprinted from June 2011 ATF Explosives Industry Newsletter", which predates the current Orange Book and therefore may not hold true to current legislation/regulation.

They sure make getting educated easy.

[displayfireworks1]

Here is some material from the PGI website
.
If you are a non-ATF-licensed hobbyist:


1) You may continue to make and use regulated explosives for your own non-commercial enjoyment on your own property and must comply with lawful storage requirements.

2) You may NOT transport that material to a club event on the club license.

3) You may transfer your material to an ATF license holder. BUT, you may NOT transport the material off your property to that license holder. An ATF license holder may come to you, collect your material, create a record of acquisition, and then transport the materials to his magazine, logging them in properly. This is NO longer your material. The transfer must remain NON-COMMERCIAL. No payment for this service may be made by you to the license holder nor any payment made to you for the material. The license holder may bring this non-commercial material to an ATF-licensed-club event and transfer the material to the possession of the club. The club must create a record of acquisition. If you are a member of the club, with the club's permission, you may then be allowed to fire said material at that club event. But, the material can never be returned to your possession.
.
Full link
http://www.pgi.org/convention/transport.php
.
You must read and comprehend carefully, people that read only tend to absorb the parts they want to hear. They block out the parts about storage and transportation.
It is easier to get some form of your own ATF license, remember it does not necessarily need to be a manufacturing license.