An interesting idea...

[uraniumsalute]

In America, it is fairly obvious we as consumers are restricted to fairly watered down fireworks in 1.4, compared to 1.3. This idea came to me a while ago, but I feel like sharing it here.

What do you think about the idea of modifying 1.4 fireworks to give them more kick? And no, I am talking about more than modifying shells to flash salutes. As in, spiking devices with flash to give them an extra oomph, such as cakes. This way, anyone can get 1.3-ish color breaks with just standard 1.4 fireworks, some flash, and a bit of time. How does everyone else feel about this idea?

[californiapyro]

well its an interesting idea, i think theres a bit more to it than break power. star burn time and shell size have to do with it, along with other things. go ahead and try it out, its a very interesting idea. if it works it will be great!

[pyromaniac]

I think if you want 1.3g performance you should buy 1.3g product! Your best off to get your 54 user permit!

[uraniumsalute]

well its an interesting idea, i think theres a bit more to it than break power. star burn time and shell size have to do with it, along with other things. go ahead and try it out, its a very interesting idea. if it works it will be great!

I have worked professionally with 1.3 before, I know there are many more factors to that. My point is, is that there are 1.3 cakes with 5/8" and 3/4" tubes that blow away anything 1.4, and it would be a neat project for any amateur pyro to try to convert them. Who wouldn't want to own a B version of their favorite 1.4 cake? :)

[Ralph]

Its a terrible idea and extremely dangerous opening up a completed device is a dangerous thing to do and there have been many instances of ignition when people open up pyrotechnics also you dont know what is in there and commercial incompatibilities can end catastrophically make your own stuff from scratch or use the commercial as is. A completely home made device is much more satisfying safer than a modified device and better

Also modifying any 1.4g product immediately renders it a 1.3 and therefore illegal for you to use with out a permit. also by adding flash you are manufacturing than in possession and unlawfully discharging a "destructive device" all of which are a felony

[californiapyro]

I have worked professionally with 1.3 before, I know there are many more factors to that. My point is, is that there are 1.3 cakes with 5/8" and 3/4" tubes that blow away anything 1.4, and it would be a neat project for any amateur pyro to try to convert them. Who wouldn't want to own a B version of their favorite 1.4 cake? :)

true... alright well im too scared to try it but hey, its an idea worth its salt. give it a shot!

[uraniumsalute]

Calm down Ralph, this is all hypothetical conversation. I have never done this before, seriously. It was simply an idea I came up with.

What WOULD be cool is if companies sold kits for cakes. Realistically, I see that flying, other than the chems needed for flash, assuming that is what some/all of the burst is. So you could buy this kit in the box, put it all together, and boom you have a working cake.

[Ralph]

safety is of great importance and dangerous suggestions must be crushed so that the smolder of a bad idea doesn't reach the powder keg causing an explosion of dangerous practices

I make all the compenents for my cakes its not rocket science

[californiapyro]

while that's a nice metaphor ralph, let the guy suggest ideas. we're all experimenters here :)

[Davis050594]

Calikewlkid you have made it apparent that you have no business making fireworks until you learn from someone who really knows what they're doing.
Here's why.
#1 Your first idea is terrible. Anyone who knows a little about pyro knows that idea won't work. Here's why. You have no idea what the shells are made of. You don't know if they're following all the rules. What if it's a chlorate star with bp burst. Ya know what would happen if you were cutting that open. I seriously hope you do. That's just one of the many dangers. Also, the shells are made specifically for there use. They have the perfect ammount of break and pasting. Cutting open will greatly hinder the shells integrity causing a terribly sloppy break and a very possible explosion upon lift. Also, the stars are very unlikely to ignite because the flash will cause the break to occur to quickly not giving proper time for the stars to light. FLASH DOES NOT MAKE EVERYTHING BETTER, in fact it makes a lot of things worse.

#2 Your cake idea is just all around horrible I don't even want to explain it all, but it wouldn't work at all.

#3 listen to people who know what they are talking about. This idea has become popular that you can just experiment, no harm done right! Well you tell me. When the news story comes out about you blowing your hand off, are they going to blam you, the ignorant "experimenter" or what they consider the evil fireworks. People like you seriously damage this hobby and you're too set on flash to care.


Take this personally, you need this pounded into your head because as of now you're on track to get hurt real soon

[uraniumsalute]

edit- Nevermind.

[Hector]

Comment removed.

[Davis050594]

What gives you any right to close this thread? It's a good thread, people with these ideas need to be shut down. If someone is a mod, they can close it, but that would be a bad decision. You are not a mod

[PKMF]

What gives you any right to close this thread? It's a good thread, people with these ideas need to be shut down. If someone is a mod, they can close it, but that would be a bad decision. You are not a mod

Well said! Reps for you! Oh wait wrong site:D

[uraniumsalute]

What gives you any right to close this thread? It's a good thread, people with these ideas need to be shut down. If someone is a mod, they can close it, but that would be a bad decision. You are not a mod

My apologies, I am and always will be a student of this hobby. Things have never happened to me, nor people who are in the hobby with me, but there is always that chance something can go wrong. I am not disagreeing with anything you said, but perhaps I could have clarified myself further in my previous posts, bringing up my own safety and procedures.

I brought this up simply as a relatively quick and easy way to get powerful cakes with just a few cheap chemicals, but your points are well taken. There is no compromise to safety, but we still need to take into account that many people do modifications/creation of devices safely, and not only are they safe, but they get a functional product doing what they want it to do at the end. This thread is by no means meant to be an intro for newer people in the hobby. All I am saying me and many others like a kick in fireworks, and no amount of talking from the CPSC/whoever is ever going to change that. If people choose to do something that might possibly endanger them, we might as well have discussion on how to do it safely as possible.

[californiapyro]

well said uraniumsalute.

not saying i agree or disagree with anyone, but please, we're all gentleman here, can we be respectful? there are ways to discourage someone from doing something other than insulting them or being condescending. not trying to start any arguments of course, just please dont give us pyros a bad image? thanks everybody :)

[Davis050594]

well said uraniumsalute.

not saying i agree or disagree with anyone, but please, we're all gentleman here, can we be respectful? there are ways to discourage someone from doing something other than insulting them or being condescending. not trying to start any arguments of course, just please dont give us pyros a bad image? thanks everybody :)

Sometimes it is neccessary. I am doing the exact opposite of giving it a bad image. I am keeping you from giving it a worse image than it already has. As I said, if you have an accident the news story won't read, "Boy Irresponsibly Plays With Chemicals That he Knew Were Dangerous and Hurt Himself", It will read, "Dangerous Bomb Quality Rocket Fireworks Mangle Boy Leaving Him in the Hospital.

[californiapyro]

[QUOTE=Davis050594;583]Sometimes it is neccessary. I am doing the exact opposite of giving it a bad image. I am keeping you from giving it a worse image than it already has. As I said, if you have an accident the news story won't read, "Boy Irresponsibly Plays With Chemicals That he Knew Were Dangerous and Hurt Himself", It will read, "Dangerous Bomb Quality Rocket Fireworks Mangle Boy Leaving Him in the Hospital.[/QUOTE/]

understood, i just think that the tone you and ralph used reflects badly on our community as well.

[tgis81]

As said earlier, besides the fact that its dangerous... modifying a 1.4 cake or shell would make it 1.3, requiring you to have a license/permit to transport or shoot it. Also it would have to be stored in an atf approved magazine. Of course all the law violations would take a back seat to the risk of injury.

[Hector]

Sorry, I was just kidding. It was inappropriate of me. My apologies. (I will try not to post stupid things in the future.)

[Ralph]

[QUOTE=Davis050594;583]Sometimes it is neccessary. I am doing the exact opposite of giving it a bad image. I am keeping you from giving it a worse image than it already has. As I said, if you have an accident the news story won't read, "Boy Irresponsibly Plays With Chemicals That he Knew Were Dangerous and Hurt Himself", It will read, "Dangerous Bomb Quality Rocket Fireworks Mangle Boy Leaving Him in the Hospital.[/QUOTE/]

understood, i just think that the tone you and ralph used reflects badly on our community as well.

Im sorry that you feel offended by how I speak but it is necessary the idea proposed while innovative is incredibly dangerous and should not even be discussed in theory as there are many superior alternatives that are far less likely to lead to serious bodily harm. A stern reminder is really the best way to get this point across Just as a father rebukes his son or a teacher his pupil it is the duty of a pyro who knows better to rebuke one that dose not


EDIT: you should probably listen to Davis on this one anyone that knows him knows just how much he LOVES flash (no offence intended) if he is saying don't add it you know there has to be a pretty good reason

[St1dinoh]

just to expand a bit on what davis was trying to say...

flash is dangerous if you don't know what you are doing, so if you don't know what you are doing, don't screw with flash. it's an easy rule of thumb that anyone can understand.

when i was taught how to make flash the first thing the guy did was have me take a hammer to 1 gram of it on a cinderblock...

when it almost took the hammer out of my hands it gave me a whole new respect for it.

anyway the "add flash to consumer stuff" is a waste of time. the stars inside typical 1.4 devices can't stand up to any flash break and you will cause the stars to shatter. this is why many of the illegal flash broke product (a few shell kits come to mind) looks like garbage. sloppy sparse breaks. if you are just a thump junkie then buy real salutes. you are going to spend days risking your life cutting into something that was perfectly fine to make something that will look like shit just to get a little extra noise out of it.

it's not stupid because it's "against the unwritten rules" it's stupid because it's a waste of time and an unnecessary risk.

either buy a 1.3 cake, or build your own shells. if you want to make salutes, join a club and learn from someone who knows what they are doing. you'll get better results that way and you will still be able to count to ten using your hands.

also, i should add that i'm not calling anyone here "stupid". we've all had "stupid ideas" and if we are lucky people talk sense into us before we do them.

[fogle22]

anyway the "add flash to consumer stuff" is a waste of time. the stars inside typical 1.4 devices can't stand up to any flash break and you will cause the stars to shatter. this is why many of the illegal flash broke product (a few shell kits come to mind) looks like garbage. sloppy sparse breaks. if you are just a thump junkie then buy real salutes. you are going to spend days risking your life cutting into something that was perfectly fine to make something that will look like shit just to get a little extra noise out of it.

it's not stupid because it's "against the unwritten rules" it's stupid because it's a waste of time and an unnecessary risk.

either buy a 1.3 cake, or build your own shells. if you want to make salutes, join a club and learn from someone who knows what they are doing. you'll get better results that way and you will still be able to count to ten using your hands.

also, i should add that i'm not calling anyone here "stupid". we've all had "stupid ideas" and if we are lucky people talk sense into us before we do them.

+1...very good points. If you looking for the flash & thump, make ground salutes. May not have the same effect, but much safer for you and your audience than altering a manufactured shell.

[arial-shellz-R-US]

davis u gota chill yo beens bro... I modivy cakes all the time but in a different way, I usually make little 3/4" shells and without messing with any of the internals of the cake I stick my shells right on top of the shells which are already in the cake, it works great, for every one shot on the cake i get 1 consumer break and one homemade.... it isent very risky but I do agree taking apart and messing with the consumer shells is a bad idea

[SoundColorfulBird]

I see this might be an almost dead thread, but I knew a guy who took festival balls and artillery shells 1.4g mortars, drill holes in the shell's payload chamber and replaced the stars with up to, I think, 500 grains of flashpowder. Or was it 900 graines? Anyway, he'd put paper masking tape over the holes. They worked pretty good as an aerial salute. He even mixed some titanium in the flashpowder.

[pyromustang]

If you want aerial salute than get your 54 user permit.

[deeks]

Just my half cent. Check out whichitabuggywhip if you want some neat ideas that are easy. Make comets and stars and glue on factory shells to have nice rising tails and mines. or, put one inch shells on top of your cakes that will handle them like aerial shells said, it makes them go crazy. Be careful and remember rule number 1. Keep Your Digits

[copper acetoarsenite]

too much busrts charge is inefficeient...ideally you want the burst to brun out almost completely before the shell breaks...for example a shell of shells should only present a brief and very dim break...the symmetry is generally controlled by the power of the burst charge where as burst diameter is controlled by the paper layers...my feeling-1.4 shells don't use straight BP for burst you would simply have excess burst charge and therefore low ignition effeiciency and maybe blind stars...I don't feel spiking would be that benificial because once the case breaks and the garnitures/starsare ignited the work of the burst charge is complete...I think usually the better shells have already been dialed in...adding extra paper may make the shell too big for the mortar and you run the risk [if you use wheat paste] of dampening the time fuse...for a larger burst try adding paper tape...the power of the burst charge helps mainly with symmetry not diameter, where paper layers are controlling...plus the friction produced by opening a shell and the integrity of the casing may be comprimised by adding burst potentially leading to premature ignition though a 'pin hole defect' in general dismantling fireworks is very dangerous...I feel that one should love a shell just as it was made...I even love a simple cheap firecracker

as an aside all of fireworks is a huge comprimise--- longer duration may mean less star density...high star density may mean smaller points of light, and of course shorter duration...nowaday I find myself stopping videos of fireworks and actually counting stars...I know terrible

also with shells with pistils--- pistil diamter is another artistic decision for some effects you want a large pistil some a smaller pistil..that why I generally don't like the use of shell hemisperes for pistils because it generally limits the artistry to a narrow range,...and for a double petalled flower[three layers] it's simply impossible to use shell hemispheres and have a 'nice ratio'...many attempts to make them, as I've seen from video, fail and the pistil is hidden amongst the petals...of course double petalled shells are the most difficult of all round shells..and may take weeks to complete...I never attempted a double petalled design myself mainly becuase I limited shells to 6 inches for safety sake...I miss this stuff so much sorry about the long tirade...lol