E-firing

[N3OQO]

OK, so I invested in an efire system from Pyroboom this year. Tested it on a couple fountains a week or so ago, this thing seems great! But I have a question maybe some of you know the answer to. Can I put two igniters into one of the terminals? They are P4 modules to be specific. Thanks!!!!

[N3OQO]

I think I got my answer, but I was wondering if it will pull enough current to fire them both reliably. Seems it will work, so another dimension added!!!

[PyroJoeNEPA]

I assume you are using the Red Dragon ignitors--which is a nichrome bridge wire igniter like the Talon. Short answer is yes---but--you are putting 6 volts across two igniters & the available current will be cut in half to each igniter. Still enough juice to fire them. Be aware of two things: 1. when you put two igniters in parallel you will show continuity on test--even if one of the igniters is bad--so you should test each one individually, then connect them together. 2. the igniters require more "juice than an ematch--so when you hit the "fire" button--hold it down for several seconds so the igniter has time to fire. Best to test it out before your 4th of July show.
One other point---those modules with the AA batteries will show a good igniter test even when the batteries are too weak to fire the igniters. [I found that out the hard way several years ago with my Traca at a club shoot!] So be sure you use good alkaline batteries each show.

[N3OQO]

Thanks for the tips Joe. I plan on using fresh batteries, and will test each one before I twist and parallel. Taking advice.

[Pyro Nation]

LISTEN TO JOE... HE knows from Experience.... all I can say is COBRAAAAAA

[PyroJoeNEPA]

LISTEN TO JOE... HE knows from Experience.... all I can say is COBRAAAAAA
Rub it in Rob!!!!! :p

[mguerra]

The user manual should say how many igniters may be used on one cue. I have several systems, some will fire three, some four, and one will fire five igniters on one cue. All my systems require parallel wiring, BTW. If the user manual does not say, test fire two, three, four and five igniters in parallel to see. If using AA batteries it will be less, if using a big lead acid battery, it will be more.

[N3OQO]

LOL, well....love the system, nothing elaborate or expensive, but the manual is two pages and reads like 'please to attach'.....HEH

[mguerra]

Test fire some igniters using little short pieces of fuse. You want to make sure that not only does the nichrome flare but it actually gets hot enough long enough to light a fuse. Try 2,3,4 and 5 in parallel. You'll figure it out.

[Rick_In_Tampa]

I assume you are using the Red Dragon ignitors--which is a nichrome bridge wire igniter like the Talon. Short answer is yes---but--you are putting 6 volts across two igniters & the available current will be cut in half to each igniter. Still enough juice to fire them. Be aware of two things: 1. when you put two igniters in parallel you will show continuity on test--even if one of the igniters is bad--so you should test each one individually, then connect them together. 2. the igniters require more "juice than an ematch--so when you hit the "fire" button--hold it down for several seconds so the igniter has time to fire. Best to test it out before your 4th of July show.
One other point---those modules with the AA batteries will show a good igniter test even when the batteries are too weak to fire the igniters. [I found that out the hard way several years ago with my Traca at a club shoot!] So be sure you use good alkaline batteries each show.

Okay.. Really stupid question time. I too own one of the cheap Chinese made wireless firing systems. (A Phoenix MR-12) I bought it last year and used it once with one talon per cue. This coming year I plan to have twice as many cakes and I'm going to need to hook up at least two talons per cue. My question is, what is the proper way to feed multiple wires into the remote unit? Should they be twisted together and then inserted? Or just set next to each other and inserted? Does it matter?? Someone even suggested soldering two wires together and then inserting them to ensure a good connection. Seems a little over the top to me, but, I thought I'd ask you guys.

[djsmurf]

Okay.. Really stupid question time. I too own one of the cheap Chinese made wireless firing systems. (A Phoenix MR-12) I bought it last year and used it once with one talon per cue. This coming year I plan to have twice as many cakes and I'm going to need to hook up at least two talons per cue. My question is, what is the proper way to feed multiple wires into the remote unit? Should they be twisted together and then inserted? Or just set next to each other and inserted? Does it matter?? Someone even suggested soldering two wires together and then inserting them to ensure a good connection. Seems a little over the top to me, but, I thought I'd ask you guys.

Rick I twisted all mine when I did use them. Upgraded rather quickly. As long as you test each Talon, after their fused, twist them add good batteries and go with it.

[PGHBoom]

I also use the PyroBoom P1200 and really like the simplicity. I'm still testing the waters to see if I want to get any bigger that I am right now. I have found that the two shorter Red Dragons have a better chance of firing than two longer. Less distance the current has to travel. You should be fine with the 1m or 3m, but are taking your chances with the 5m.

http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=1787&stc=1

[Rick_In_Tampa]

Rick I twisted all mine when I did use them. Upgraded rather quickly. As long as you test each Talon, after their fused, twist them add good batteries and go with it.

That's what I was thinking too. Thanks for the sanity check.

[Rick_In_Tampa]

I also use the PyroBoom P1200 and really like the simplicity. I'm still testing the waters to see if I want to get any bigger that I am right now. I have found that the two shorter Red Dragons have a better chance of firing than two longer. Less distance the current has to travel. You should be fine with the 1m or 3m, but are taking your chances with the 5m.

http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=1787&stc=1

I'm going to be using the 3M talon's so I can have a left and right firing position this year. My plan is to put the remote in the middle to fire both sides at the same time.

I would dearly love to get a Cobra system, but I just can't justify the expense right now. I do like those 4 cue remotes that you have. I was looking at them on Amazon yesterday actually. I didn't buy them because (if I remember correctly) the description said it will support 4 e-match or 2, maybe 3 talons. Sounded too iffy to me so I didn't buy them.

have you used 4 talons with these remotes before? If so, any misfires?

[pyroboom]

I also use the PyroBoom P1200 and really like the simplicity. I'm still testing the waters to see if I want to get any bigger that I am right now. I have found that the two shorter Red Dragons have a better chance of firing than two longer. Less distance the current has to travel. You should be fine with the 1m or 3m, but are taking your chances with the 5m.

http://www.pyrotalk.com/bulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=1787&stc=1

I like that case!

[PyroJoeNEPA]

Firing four Talons one at a time will draw less current from the module than firing four all at once. If you are hitting several cakes at the same time try using seperate modues for simultaneous cues. This will be the least current draw and most reliable way to do it.
Also, consider upgrading from the Talons to the "Firewire Ignitors" which are a non regulated consumer alternative to an ematch. They will cost a bit more, but, IMHO, would be well worth the investment to see your show get "in the air" when you need it to be.
PS--there are a lot of used 4 channel modules for the 1200 system floating around.
CapitalPyro-AKA FirecrackerSam sold them before Pyroboom took them over. [Hence the nomenclature CP1200 for the control unit.]

[Rick_In_Tampa]

Firing four Talons one at a time will draw less current from the module than firing four all at once. If you are hitting several cakes at the same time try using seperate modues for simultaneous cues. This will be the least current draw and most reliable way to do it.
Also, consider upgrading from the Talons to the "Firewire Ignitors" which are a non regulated consumer alternative to an ematch. They will cost a bit more, but, IMHO, would be well worth the investment to see your show get "in the air" when you need it to be.
PS--there are a lot of used 4 channel modules for the 1200 system floating around.
CapitalPyro-AKA FirecrackerSam sold them before Pyroboom took them over. [Hence the nomenclature CP1200 for the control unit.]

Joe - Do the firewire initiators require less power than the talons to ignite? Part of the reason I was considering buying the 4 cue remotes is because I plan to fire 12 cakes as part of the pre-finale this coming 4th. Four each of red, silver, and blue peony's. My plan was to line the cakes up red/white/blue and set them all off at the same time. So using three 4 cue remotes seemed to make sense. That is, if they can power 4 talons (or firewire initiators) at the same time. If not I'm going to need to use a single cue on each set of 4 cakes and run fast fuse between them. Not optimal...

Another thought... I could use a single cue remote and wire the talons or FWI in series, yes? The delay would be negligible and it should be more reliable from a power standpoint, yes? Or am I being stupid?

[PyroJoeNEPA]

Rick... The Firewire Initiators require much less current to fire them than a Talon or similar ignitor. You can fire the 12 cakes all at once using Firewire Initiators--but not Talons.
You can NOT wire Talons in series--only in parallel and the current draw would be too high for the remotes.
There are a couple options also to fire the 12 cakes--Using Firewire Initiators you could make four sets of Red-White-Blue with the ignitors [3] in series--thus firing a set of three [RWB] cakes on one cue. If you wait a fraction of a second between each set of 3 cakes you could do the whole thing with one 4ch module. Having them each on an individual cue using 12 Ignitors & 4 modules would be less margin for error.
You will notice when you use the Firewire Ignitors that as soon as you hit the fire button on the remote they "go" compared to the Talons which require you hold the button down for a couple seconds until the nichrome wire heats up & lights the fuse.
Also, with the Firewire you can go directly into the first tube of the cake--using a brass poke to enlarge the fuse hole. There are videos out there on how to "ematch a cake".
And---No questions are stupid! always best to ask and learn from the mistakes we all have made over the years instead of re-inventing the wheel and making the same mistakes yourself!

[Rick_In_Tampa]

Rick... The Firewire Initiators require much less current to fire them than a Talon or similar ignitor. You can fire the 12 cakes all at once using Firewire Initiators--but not Talons.
You can NOT wire Talons in series--only in parallel and the current draw would be too high for the remotes.
There are a couple options also to fire the 12 cakes--Using Firewire Initiators you could make four sets of Red-White-Blue with the ignitors [3] in series--thus firing a set of three [RWB] cakes on one cue. If you wait a fraction of a second between each set of 3 cakes you could do the whole thing with one 4ch module. Having them each on an individual cue using 12 Ignitors & 4 modules would be less margin for error.
You will notice when you use the Firewire Ignitors that as soon as you hit the fire button on the remote they "go" compared to the Talons which require you hold the button down for a couple seconds until the nichrome wire heats up & lights the fuse.
Also, with the Firewire you can go directly into the first tube of the cake--using a brass poke to enlarge the fuse hole. There are videos out there on how to "ematch a cake".
And---No questions are stupid! always best to ask and learn from the mistakes we all have made over the years instead of re-inventing the wheel and making the same mistakes yourself!

Joe - That was most helpful my friend!! Looks like my next stop is the MJG website! Looks like it's time to make the move to firewire initiators!!

[PYRODAN]

RICK-IN-TAMPA, go with the Firewires. I just bought a case of them. If there was an easy way I would send you a box to try. If by some chance you find yourself in Ohio, let me know and I will give you a box. Or, just order one box to try.

[Rick_In_Tampa]

RICK-IN-TAMPA, go with the Firewires. I just bought a case of them. If there was an easy way I would send you a box to try. If by some chance you find yourself in Ohio, let me know and I will give you a box. Or, just order one box to try.

PYRODAN - I seriously appreciate the thought buddy! I get paid Friday so I'm going to order a few boxes to test out and hopefully have enough left over for the 4th.

I'm assuming you bought them from MJG, yes? I saw Dave's video on them and they look really reliable.

[cptnding]

Rick,
You're gonna love those firewires. I've used talons for a while and after trying the initiators NYE I aint going back. Let me know if you need some talons. lol

[Bazerk]

PYRODAN - I seriously appreciate the thought buddy! I get paid Friday so I'm going to order a few boxes to test out and hopefully have enough left over for the 4th.

I'm assuming you bought them from MJG, yes? I saw Dave's video on them and they look really reliable.

Hey Rick. I shot that entire New Years show with the MJG igniters. They are very reliable, require much less current and as stated previously, you can and should put them right into where the original cake fuse goes into the cake. Buy a brass awl or two on ebay for $12 or so. This way you can recruit some help from a friend to put the igniters in the cake with you. They are instant and you wont go back after using them. Another thing to keep in mind is to think about the length you want them. I always get 3 or 5 meter so that all of the wires can reach my modules. Its a pretty simple process and will make your life much easier bud.

[Rick_In_Tampa]

Lol... Thanks cptnding. I hope to never have to use a talon again after this year.

[Rick_In_Tampa]

I always get 3 or 5 meter so that all of the wires can reach my modules. Its a pretty simple process and will make your life much easier bud.

When my show grows up, I hope it looks like yours bud. And that's not sarcasm!! That's the God's honest truth.

I'm ordering another firing system to give me enough cues to fire my finale this year, and it's going to be all firewire! I'm pretty psyched about it. :cool:

I was looking at getting the 3M variety. That should give me plenty of length to get from the cakes to the remote. Good call!