Is a CDL Hazmat necessary for non-commerce?

[displayfireworks1]

I need some opinions on this.
Currently I am working with a person in Texas that will soon have his ATF license to purchase 1.3 fireworks. He plans to use the 1.3 fireworks for his own personal use and will not be in commerce. The distributor insists he needs to have a Commercial Driver License with Hazmat endorsement before he will sell to him.
What I know about this, as long as you are not in commerce (running a business to make money) you do not need to have a CDL with Hazmat and further you do not need to Placard your vehicle. Of course I can not make anyone sell me or you anything. Some 1.3 distributors can add more requirements if they wish, but as far as I know this is not a requirement if you are not in commerce. Anyone have an opinion or experience like this.
displayfireworks1
http://cman.tnsaferoads.net/Comm-fh/vwComm/img/hazmat-s1-2.png
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_LRQ8_lS4b60/TM9ZJzYknqI/AAAAAAAAAA4/vn_w5QezUKo/s1600/PlacardCDIndex.png
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTu3NFbukg2Ehx6IY6Dr2o_9_lqc5ji9 4XKdOFQCltKbLNbKsxaVQ

[jknepp1954]

there use to be a 1.3 distributor in NE Pa that does the same thing...

[mguerra]

I am working on this myself in Texas. I was reading the Texas regs and as I read them you have to have a CDL with hazmat endorsement to transport 1.3 G product. Sport , hobby, pro display, these activities are not specified. I will look it up again and post the specific regs.

[displayfireworks1]

I believe I am correct about the hobbyist not in commerce part.
Here is a copy an past from the Pyrotechnic Guild International website. Another good reason to belong to this organization. Also another good reason to have some form of an ATF Fireworks license.
.


This article has been vetted for legal accuracy and reviewed by PGI Attorney, Doug Mawhorr.

If you are even thinking about bringing fireworks to the PGI, that are regulated as explosives by ATF (Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives), please read this article thoroughly as there has been a major change in rules interpretation and enforcement by ATF. Let me also clarify and reiterate DOT (U.S. Department of Transportation) rules interpretation which has NOT changed.

DOT


1) If you are NOT in commerce, DOT rules and regulations do NOT apply to you. You need not have a CDL, placards, log book, MCS 90 insurance certificate and $5 million in coverage, hazardous materials registration, etc.

2) If you are in commerce, you need all of the above and more, which is described in the DOT's Slideshow on Commercial Transport of Fireworks.

Conclusions:

If you are bringing your own non-commercial fireworks to the PGI for your own enjoyment, DOT has no issue with you and you have none with them. This has not changed.

If PGI is paying you to do a display, EVEN if you are a club, you MUST find a qualified means to transport your pyrotechnic materials to the convention. This most likely means working with a display company as no club I know of, including the PGI, can afford to become a commercial transporter of display fireworks.

ATF

Some history is required here:

On May 24, 2003, the Safe Explosives Act took effect. This required an ATF license for ALL transportation of regulated explosives on public roads. "Public roads" means anything off your personal property.

A User Limited ATF license will allow intrastate transportation. An ATF license, of any type greater than User Limited, is required for interstate transportation. In 2006, the ATF conducted an enforcement operation at the Appleton PGI convention. Though no material was seized and no persons were charged, this created a problem that we felt needed to be addressed.

To that end, on December 11, 2006, our attorney, John Brooke, Tom Handel, and I met with ATF and DOT personnel at ATF HQ. Representing ATF at that meeting were, among others, ATF Co-Chief Counsel, Teresa Ficaretta, Arson and Explosives Division Explosives Industry Branch Programs Chief Gary Bangs, and his immediate superior, Mark Jones, the Deputy Division Chief.

An agreement was arrived at, endorsed by ATF Counsel, that a member of a club could transport hobbyist materials to a club event under the club ATF license. An agreement was also reached whereby it was determined that travel requiring an overnight stay would still be interpreted as transportation and that no magazine storage would be required. Table of distances requirements would be in force, however, but cars would not count as occupied structures, so parking lots would have sufficed so long as the vehicle was locked. The details of and permissions granted under this agreement have previously been published in some detail and I will not reiterate those details here.

Though we asked ATF to reduce this agreement to writing, no written response was ever provided to the questions we posed. These questions have now been answered in the June 2009 ATF Explosives Industry Newsletter.

For two and a half years, this verbal agreement was honored. No other interpretation was offered and enforcement was consistent with the agreements reached in 2006 by ATF and PGI.

DOT did not offer any changes in regulatory interpretation at this meeting and none were requested of DOT by PGI.

The ATF regulation interpretation has now changed. The permissions previously afforded members to transport under a club license have been unilaterally rescinded and previous permissions granted must be considered as revoked.

If you are a non-ATF-licensed hobbyist:


1) You may continue to make and use regulated explosives for your own non-commercial enjoyment on your own property and must comply with lawful storage requirements.

2) You may NOT transport that material to a club event on the club license.

3) You may transfer your material to an ATF license holder. BUT, you may NOT transport the material off your property to that license holder. An ATF license holder may come to you, collect your material, create a record of acquisition, and then transport the materials to his magazine, logging them in properly. This is NO longer your material. The transfer must remain NON-COMMERCIAL. No payment for this service may be made by you to the license holder nor any payment made to you for the material. The license holder may bring this non-commercial material to an ATF-licensed-club event and transfer the material to the possession of the club. The club must create a record of acquisition. If you are a member of the club, with the club's permission, you may then be allowed to fire said material at that club event. But, the material can never be returned to your possession.

From this point forward, with NO EXCEPTIONS:

You MUST have an ATF User Limited License for ANY intrastate (within your state, crossing NO state boundary lines) transportation of regulated explosive materials, whether in commerce or not.

You must have an ATF license, of any type greater than User Limited, which is required for ANY interstate transportation of regulated explosives.

Further, as if that news were not enough, you are now in transportation ONLY while en route and moving. Whether or not you are an ATF license holder, if you stop overnight, your material MUST either be placed in a lawful magazine or, in a locked and attended vehicle AT THE DISPLAY SITE.

I was pleased that we could work out the agreement that was in force for the last two and a half years. I am dismayed that an agreement that worked so well has now been unilaterally discarded without any consultation with or communication to those affected, except as provided in the newsletter. But, that's the way it is.

Given the recent changes in ATF interpretation of explosives rules that rescind these two key allowances previously afforded hobbyists as published in the June Industry Newsletter, I think it would be both reasonable and prudent to expect an ATF enforcement action at the PGI convention and, perhaps, at other regional club activities. Thus, if you are not 100% certain you are lawfully transporting fireworks (non-commercial, ATF license holder) do not even think about doing so this year. If you can find a license holder to come collect your material and are willing to part with it, as described above, this is your only remaining option to be a non-licensed hobbyist manufacturer and shoot your material at club events held at sites other than on your property. Otherwise, your best course would be to obtain an ATF license and a contingency storage letter from a license holder or to establish proper storage on your own premises.

Remember, a license holder may still grant you permission to store material in his or her magazine, so, while a license is required for transportation, you need not have storage on your property. As an example, a member of the CrackerJacks club could:


1) Obtain a user, non-limited ATF license

2) Make fireworks for his own enjoyment at the Crackerjacks club site

3) Store the material in the Crackerjacks magazines, after obtaining written permission to do so

4) Then collect the material and transport it, without any DOT constraints, to the PGI event or other event, so long as NO compensation is provided for your doing so (you must remain non-commercial)

In closing, this is, in my opinion, bad news and certainly makes life more complicated, but, for all but a few hobbyists, there are still solutions that will allow you to continue to enjoy your hobby. Whatever you choose to do, please do so lawfully. If you have any questions, feel free to contact me by email. I will answer your questions and have our attorneys vet those answers for accuracy.

Three questions, with answers, follow as examples:


Question:

I am Type 50 licensed and intend to transport my shells to Mason City for competition. I am a member of the Iowa Pyrotechnic Association (IPA).

Several other IPA members (not licensed) intend to bring theirs as well.

I understand that for them to do so, I (or another licensed person) would have to assume ownership of their shells, log them in my (or their) book, fill out an acquisition form, and transport them myself (or licensed other).

Now the part I don't quite follow "If the IPA does NOT have a club license, how do I (or other licensed person) get the shells back to the non-licensed person that built them so they can compete with them? Does PGI have a club license that I (or other licensed person) could transfer them to so the builder could get them back to compete with or are the non licensed builders basically out of luck until they get licensed for next year?"

~ Jerry Dixon - Iowa Pyrotechnic Association

Answer:

1) You (the ATF license holder) collect the shell and establish the person's name as a maker's mark of registration. You record acquisition and log the shell in your magazine.

2) You bring it to PGI. Ruth Holcomb (the PGI's on-site magazine tender) creates a record of acquisition. Ruth will also need a copy of your ATF license. Ruth will log this into the magazine and establish the name of the manufacturer member.

3) The member who manufactured the shell can retrieve it, as a club member, and shoot it at our event, in competition or in open shooting.

Question:

That sounds rather complicated. Can't I, as an ATF license holder, simply transport the fireworks made by a non-license holder to the convention where my non-licensed friend and I can then shoot the material without all the PGI paperwork?

Answer:

Yes. That may be done. This makes life simpler for all of us. In fact, we prefer you to do the following:

1) The ATF licensed member collects the fireworks, creates a record of acquisition, and assures that the shell is labeled by type, size, and name of the manufacturer. No time/date/shift or other labeling is required for non-commercial material.

2) The ATF licensed member logs the material into the PGI magazine as we have done in years past. All that is required is that Ruth Holcomb, our magazine tender, log the material in and give you a ticket to retrieve it.

3) While at the PGI event, any PGI member may shoot display fireworks or make fireworks, consistent with our rules and procedures. No license is actually required for activities on private property, not involving transportation on a public road, commercial activity, and with proper storage provided.

4) You and your friend may retrieve the fireworks and shoot them in competition or open shooting.

5) Remember: You may NOT transfer the fireworks back to your non-licensed friend. They must either be fired or destroyed at PGI or returned by you to your magazine.

6) Remember: The fireworks remain your property. PGI only provides storage. Therefore, you are responsible for this material and its use at all times.

Question:

Throughout the paragraph you refer to "license" holders only being allowed to transport hobbyist fireworks to, in this case, convention. Several people I've talked to believe that holders of "Type 34 Permits" can also transport to convention. Are you using the term "license" as a figure of speech and also mean "permit holder" or am I mistaken? To break it down I guess I am asking a few questions since I know of people wondering whether to get a "license" or a "permit".

Answer:

A Type-34 "Permit" allows interstate transportation.
I had used the term license colloquially.
ATF means:
Permit: for users (33-34-35-54-36-37-38-55-60)
License: for manufacturers (19-20-21-22-50), dealers (26-27-28-53-29), importers (23-24-25-51)
Permit Types: 36-37-38-55-60 allow ONLY intrastate transportation.
Permit Types: 33-34-35-54 allow INTERSTATE transportation.
License Types: 19-20-21-22-50-23-24-25-51-26-27-28-53-29 allow INTERSTATE transportation.

~ John Steinberg

Here is the link if needed.
http://www.pgi.org/convention/transport.php
.
http://www.northernlightspyro.com/images/logos/PGI_logo.jpg

[mguerra]

Texas law states that you must have a CDL with Hazmat endorsement if you transport materials that require placarding. It doesn't matter if it is for personal or commercial purposes. Trying to figure out the placarding requirement has been difficult. There are statements in the federal regs that indicate small quantities of hazardous materials are exempt from the placarding requirement. But finding out what constitutes "small quantities" has been difficult. Still searching...

[PuroJon]

Doesn't matter at all what the PGI says if the State of Texas makes its own policy. The distributor is probably trying to avoid liability issues if/when one of their customers blows up (i.e. auto accident) on the way to the delivery point from a pickup.

[displayfireworks1]

I believe all this is controlled at the Federal level. The states may have no control over this. I can not reveal some of my advisors on certain matters, the word they are giving me is you do are exempt from the commerce laws if you are a hobbyist not in for profit. You do need an ATF license.I talked with this 1.3 distributor in Texas and he was not aware of this either. But to be honest he is picky about who he sells 1.3 fireworks to. A distributor can add more rules to a buyer, I can not make someone sell fireworks to a ATF license holder. If you are not in commerce you do not need a CDL, Hazmat endorsement or Placards.
I am hoping someone else comments on this beside me. If you are reading this and not a member of the forums, please email me a link to pyrotalk@gmail.com , you can remain anonymous if you wish.

[CTPYRO]

This a good information for sure. The club I'm in ( NHPA ) has applied for the type 20 and some of us including me are going to have contingency on the license so there was questions about driving product to our shoots in NH and some of us are out of state. Of course we could always have a group buy and have it delivered to the Mag as well

[tntrealty1]

This is what I was told here in the Northeast by my attorney. "Not in commerce the transportation requirements do not pertain unless that state specifically lists exceptions on transporting hazardous materials." In such case as Texas, they are (specifying) requiring everyone transporting hazardous materials follow DOT regulations.

[displayfireworks1]

I wouldn't lie to you, they even wrote a song about it ."Not in Commerce"
.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrddqgcjagQ
.
Listen to what they told the judge past 2:10

[cracker]

Dave, I know in California you do. Anything 1.3 and up are considered dangerous explosives by DOJ and the State Fire Marshal. So a CDL with a Hazmat endorsement is necessary to transport any 1.3 items to the shoot site. That also means an TSA background check, and random pee tests from the DOT. I should add, in Ca a type 54 alone is not enough to purchase or posses federally controlled explosives. Get caught with a 4 inch salute, and you say goodbye chances of getting an operators licence in Ca, and hello jail time.

[displayfireworks1]

I need some help explaining this to clear up misconceptions. I went through this in Ohio, people thought you could not get a ATF license until you obtained a state certification to shoot fireworks in Ohio. That is wrong, just ask the guy in Cincinnati I helped get his ATF license. Actually I helped several people get a ATF license in Ohio. A type 54 or greater ATF is exactly what you need to possess 1.3 fireworks in California and/or any other state in United States. When you obtain a ATF explosive license you can purchase 1.3 fireworks in any state of United States. When you receive a Federal Explosive license you are receiving it for United States not a state. I live in Pennsylvania I buy 1.3 fireworks in Ohio. I can also buy in Kentucky and any other state. You need a ATF explosive license to transport the fireworks.
I posted the Pyrotechnic Guild International information, hopefully someone else will help me with this as the thread progresses. As far as California you state the fire marshal consider 1.3 dangerous fireworks. They actually consider regular 1.4 products "Dangerous Fireworks" . California may have coined the term "Safe and Sane" products.
Fireworks enthusiast that are deep into the pyrotechnic hobby know all about "Not in Commerce". In one of my future post I going to tell you do not a license to make fireworks in California or any other state, but you may not believe that either. LOL

[cracker]

Hey Dave, I love watching your videos. I think this topic is worthy of a very informative discussion. Not saying your wrong, you are right on the federal level, but on the state level, there are additional laws that do apply, as a sort of addendum to existing Federal Laws.

Here is how California defines a dangerous 1.4 consumer firework:

12505. Dangerous fireworks

(1) "Dangerous fireworks" includes all of the following:

(a) Any fireworks which contain any of the following:

(1) Arsenic sulfide, arsenates, or arsenites.
(2) Boron

(3) Chlorates, except:

(A) In colored smoke mixture in which an equal or greater
amount of sodium bicarbonate is included.

(B) In caps and party poppers.

(C) In those small items (such as ground spinners) wherein
the total powder content does not exceed 4 grams of which
not greater than 15 percent (or 600 milligrams) is potassium,
sodium, or barium chlorate.
7


(4) Gallates or Gallic acid.

(5) Magnesium (magnesium-aluminum alloys, called magnalium,
are permitted).

(6) Mercury salts.

(7) Phosphorus (red or white except that red phosphorus is
permissible in caps and party poppers).

(8) Picrates or picric acid.

(9) Thiocyanates.

(10) Titanium, except in particle size greater than 100-mesh.

(11) Zirconium.

(b) Firecrackers.

(c) Skyrockets and rockets, including all devices which employ any
combustible or explosive material and which rise in the air during
discharge.

(d) Roman candles, including all devices which discharge balls of fire into
the air.

(e) Chasers, including all devices which dart or travel about the surface of
the ground during discharge.

(f) Sparklers more than 10 inches in length or one-fourth of one inch in
diameter.

(g) All fireworks designed and intended by the manufacturer to create the
element of surprise upon the user. These items include, but are not limited
to, autofoolers, cigarette loads, exploding golf balls, and trick matches.

(h) Fireworks known as devil-on-the-walk, or any other fireworks which
explodes through means of friction, unless otherwise classified by the
State Fire Marshal pursuant to this part.

(i) Torpedoes of all kinds which explode on impact.

(j) Fireworks kits.


(k) Such other fireworks examined and tested by the State Fire Marshal
and determined by him, with the advice of the State Board of Fire Services
to possess characteristics of design or construction which make such
fireworks unsafe for use by any person not specially qualified or trained in
the use of fireworks.

California Health and Safety Code 12677 HS -- Possession of dangerous fireworks without a permit.

This section dictates you cannot posses dangerous fireworks without a valid permit. The issuing authority of valid permits are the State Fire Marshal. Keep in mind, you must study, and pass a written test (either in LA or Sacramento) in order to obtain permitting.

In addition, if say a 6 inch brocade ball shell, for example, does not have a Ca State Fire Marshal seal on it, it is illegal, even if it was legal in another state.

12607. Persons convicted of certain felonies; denial of license

The State Fire Marshal may deny the application for a license or the
application for renewal of a license filed by any person who has been
convicted of a felony involving explosives or dangerous fireworks or who
has been convicted as a principal or accessory in a crime against property
involving arson or any other fire-related offense contained in Chapter l
(commencing with Section 447a) of Title 13 of Part 1 of the Penal Code.

Even if you have a Type 54, and bought your 1.3 fireworks in Oregon, (which you can do) and then drove them down to Ca, without a Ca permit, you have broken the law. As you can see, you stray into felony realm real fast:

Possessing 101 to 5,000 pounds of dangerous fireworks is a wobbler. A "wobbler" is a charge that prosecutors may file as either a misdemeanor or a felony, depending on the facts of the case, and your criminal history.

So, even if you have a Type 54, and you do not have a Ca State licence, you can, and probably will get charged with a felony, and your chances of ever being permitted in Ca, severely decrease.


At this point, I feel that I am digressing from the original topic. I really do love reading up, and understanding laws, though. But here is a little info on the process of liscensing and how to legally shoot in Ca. (bear in mind, other towns and counties have additional laws in place regarding professional fireworks displays)

[cracker]

Here is one source:

http://osfm.fire.ca.gov/strucfireengineer/pdf/fireworks/FireworksHandbook2011.pdf

And a quick reference to answer some questions which may arise:

http://www.americanpyro.com/assets/docs/State_Laws/ca13.pdf

[mguerra]

This is a direct quote from the Texas Department of Public Safety website:

"Individuals are required to have a CDL if they operate a motor vehicle:

1. With a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of 26,001 pounds,
2. Which transports quantities of hazardous materials that requires warning placards (signs), or
3. Designed to transport 16 or more passengers including the driver.
Any vehicle that requires an endorsement (i.e. school bus, hazardous material, etc.) may not be driven unless the proper endorsement appears on the CDL."

As you can see, item 2 is the sticking point for 1.3 fireworks. It all hinges on whether or not a placard is required. There is nothing on this website that says anything about commerce versus hobby, that issue is not addressed. This is state law. The question of placarding is Federal law. The placarding requirements are in CFR 49, which I have been studying for days! If I can figure this out, I will post it. On the other hand, it's not that hard to get a CDL in Texas! So I'm just going to get it anyway, and it will be there if any seller asks me to show it. No big deal.

Now, all of this CDL business has nothing to do with getting a 1.3 license in Texas, you don't need the CDL to get the 1.3 license. The CDL has to do with TRANSPORTING the product. That is a separate issue. To POSSESS 1.3 product in Texas, you have to have a Pyrotechnic Operators license. This law does not care if it is for personal or commercial use. ANY discharge of 1.3 in Texas falls under this law. Here is the link to the entire law in Texas:

http://www.tdi.texas.gov/fire/documents/fmstatfireworks.pdf

If you read it in it's entirety, you will see there is no distinction between personal nor commercial use. That issue is never addressed. It simply says that any display of 1.3 requires the license. It is in the first part of the law under "definitions":

(14) "Public display" means the igniting of Fireworks 1.3G for public or private amusement.

So, definition 14 is what causes us to need the Pyrotechnic Operator license.

Here are the rules:

§ 2154.101. General Requirements
(a) A person must obtain an appropriate license to:
(1) engage in the business of manufacturing, distributing, jobbing, or importing fireworks to be sold or
used in this state; or
(2) supervise or conduct public fireworks displays.

§ 2154.154. Pyrotechnic Operator's License
(a) A person must be a licensed pyrotechnic operator if the person assembles, conducts, and supervises
public fireworks displays using Fireworks 1.3G.

So, to summarize, in Texas you need the Pyro license to transport and display 1.3G product, and you (probably) need the CDL with hazmat endorsement to transport it. Two separate issues.

To get the POL, you have to meet certain requirements that are in the pdf I linked to, it's not that hard. One of those requirements is the BATF 54. But to shoot, you also need a permit for each shoot. So you need a state LICENSE to perform shoots in general, and also a specific local PERMIT for each shoot. The permit for the shoot has another layer of requirements having to do with insurance, fire marshalls OK, and some other requirements. So if you want to use 1.3 G in Texas, you need a Texas state license, a local permit for each individual shoot, and likely a CDL with hazmat, if I read that placarding rule correctly.
The BATF 54 has NOTHING to do with operating fireworks displays, local display permits, state pyrotechnic operator licensing or any of those matters, which are all left to the states. The BATF 54 has to do with the feds vetting you to possess explosives, fireworks in particular, and your ability to store them or have them stored for you. That's it. It is NOT a federal fireworks display operators license! The BATF 54 does not give you carte blanche to buy, store, possess, display and transport 1.3 fireworks in any state whenever and wherever you want!! Once the state sees you have the BATF 54, they will allow you to go through the state licensing process.
Let's summarize this:
The fed vets you to possess 1.3g explosives.
The state licenses you to put on displays.
The local jurisdiction gives you a permit for each individual shoot.
You might need a CDL to drive the stuff around.

Once I get the final answer on the CDL in Texas, I will post it. But as a practical matter, you might as well get it in Texas so you don't have to argue about it with your supplier. Insurance and local permitting are going to be bigger problems than the CDL!

[mike2255]

I would have to think that ANYBODY who is traveling down the road carrying 1.3 material in their vehicle, whether it is for commerce or pleasure use, is to abide by the DOT regulations and have a cdl and placard their vehicle. The placards are used to make a vehicle noticable that is carrying hazardous materials. They are used to make other drivers and/or emergency vehicles aware of what is being transported in your truck/car/tanker/ trailer/ or whatever vehicle it may be. Why should that matter if they are being transported in commerce or not? I do not think a person can drive with hazardous gas tanks in the back of their trucks legally without letting other know what is being transported, whether they are doing it for work or not, should not matter.

If your vehicle gets in an accident and is on fire, you are supposed to be marked so that when an emergency vehicle shows up they know what type of hazard is being transported. Im sure they don't care if you are doing it commercially or for pleasure use.

Anybody else want to way in on these thoughts? I know in NY if I were to drive with no placard and got pulled over with shells in the truck, id be in some serious stuff...

[martymower]

do you need a state of texas anything in order to do a 1.4 consumer only show for payment? what about for free or for just expenses?

[PyroJW]

In the state of Texas 1.4g Fireworks can only be sold twice a year but they can be discharged year around. That also depends on city ordinances or burn bans. A 1.4g consumer show for pay would require a city & state permit. Which would mean you need your special effects (SPO) license to legally do the show or a audience greater than 50 people.

[mguerra]

Note that in Texas a burn ban has nothing to do with fireworks. A burn ban does not prohibit fireworks. There IS a fireworks ban that can be imposed, by the county commissioners, and it is time limited to two weeks. Now as a practical matter, if a burn ban is in effect, you would want to be very careful about discharging any fireworks with an eye toward fire prevention. But you should always be careful about that at all times, burn ban or not!

[mguerra]

PyroJW:
Here is the entirety of the Texas fireworks laws:
http://www.tdi.texas.gov/fire/documents/fmstatfireworks.pdf
There are six types of licenses; distributor, jobber, manufacturer, pyrotechnic operator, pyrotechnic special effects operator, and flame effects operator. Here is the law regarding pyrotechnic special effects operator:

§ 2154.155. Pyrotechnic Special Effects Operator's License
(a) A person must be a licensed pyrotechnic special effects operator if the person assembles, conducts, and
supervises proximate displays using Fireworks 1.3G or Fireworks 1.4G as defined in NFPA 1126 Standard of the
Use of Pyrotechnics Before a Proximate Audience.
(b) The commissioner shall set and collect an annual pyrotechnic special effects operator's license fee in an
amount not to exceed $100.
(c) To qualify for a pyrotechnic special effects operator's license, a person must take and pass an
examination, if required, conducted by the commissioner through the state fire marshal's office.
(d) Unless the examination is administered by a testing service, a person shall be charged a nonrefundable
initial examination fee in an amount not to exceed $50. Unless the reexamination is administered by a testing
service, a person shall be charged a nonrefundable fee in an amount not to exceed $20 for each reexamination.

The difference between pyrotechnics operator and pyrotechnics special effects operator has to do with the proximate audience, nothing more.

§ 2154.154. Pyrotechnic Operator's License
(a) A person must be a licensed pyrotechnic operator if the person assembles, conducts, and supervises
public fireworks displays using Fireworks 1.3G.
(b) The commissioner shall set and collect an annual pyrotechnic operator's license fee in an amount not to
exceed $100.
(c) To qualify for a pyrotechnic operator's license, a person must take and pass an examination, if required,
conducted by the commissioner through the state fire marshal's office.
(d) Unless the examination is administered by a testing service, a person shall be charged a nonrefundable
initial examination fee in an amount not to exceed $50. Unless the reexamination is administered by a testing
service, a person shall be charged a nonrefundable fee in an amount not to exceed $20 for each reexamination.

There is nothing in the licensing requirement having to do with display for pay, or 50 people. Are there other laws or regs you know of in Texas that say anything about these matters? I am trying to be 100% aware of ALL the laws in Texas regarding use of 1.3G product.
Also, Dave, in reviewing the entire code, I see no reference to any difference between commercial and hobby display of 1.3G.

[mguerra]

As said before, in Texas you need a LICENSE to use 1.3G, and a PERMIT to put on a display. I see nothing in the permit requirement about for pay, or for 50 or more people:

§ 2154.204. Public Display Permit
(a) The commissioner shall set and collect a permit fee in an amount not to exceed $50 for a Fireworks 1.3G
single public display permit. The permit shall be obtained from the commissioner through the state fire marshal.
(b) A single public fireworks display permit is valid for only one public fireworks display to be held during the
hours and on the date or alternate date, if provided, stated on the permit and is not renewable.
(c) A person conducting multiple fireworks displays at a single location may be issued a multiple public
display permit. The commissioner shall set and collect an annual multiple public display permit fee in an amount
not to exceed $400.
(d) The holder of a multiple public display permit is not required to obtain a single public display permit. A
multiple public display permit is valid for one year from the date of issuance and is not renewable.
(e) This chapter does not limit the authority of the state fire marshal to inspect the location of the display or to
require appropriate fire protection measures.
(f) The commissioner shall adopt by reference the provisions of:
(1) NFPA 1123, Code for Fireworks Display, 1995 Edition, as rules governing public displays; and
Spring 2013 Occupations Code Chapter 2154 & Fireworks Rules State Fire Marshal’s Office Page 8 o f 29 (2) NFPA 1126, Standards for the Use of Pyrotechnics Before a Proximate Audience, 1996 Edition, as
rules governing indoor displays.


There is also no specific reference to 1.4G use in any of the PERMIT regs that I can discern. There is a reference to using 1.4G before a proximate audience in the LICENSE requirements, however. It is highlighted in my previous post and repeated here :
§ 2154.155. Pyrotechnic Special Effects Operator's License
(a) A person must be a licensed pyrotechnic special effects operator if the person assembles, conducts, and
supervises proximate displays using Fireworks 1.3G or Fireworks 1.4G as defined in NFPA 1126 Standard of the
Use of Pyrotechnics Before a Proximate Audience.

[Northern Sky]

I need some help explaining this to clear up misconceptions. I went through this in Ohio, people thought you could not get a ATF license until you obtained a state certification to shoot fireworks in Ohio. That is wrong, just ask the guy in Cincinnati I helped get his ATF license. Actually I helped several people get a ATF license in Ohio. A type 54 or greater ATF is exactly what you need to possess 1.3 fireworks in California and/or any other state in United States. When you obtain a ATF explosive license you can purchase 1.3 fireworks in any state of United States. When you receive a Federal Explosive license you are receiving it for United States not a state. I live in Pennsylvania I buy 1.3 fireworks in Ohio. I can also buy in Kentucky and any other state. You need a ATF explosive license to transport the fireworks.
I posted the Pyrotechnic Guild International information, hopefully someone else will help me with this as the thread progresses. As far as California you state the fire marshal consider 1.3 dangerous fireworks. They actually consider regular 1.4 products "Dangerous Fireworks" . California may have coined the term "Safe and Sane" products.
Fireworks enthusiast that are deep into the pyrotechnic hobby know all about "Not in Commerce". In one of my future post I going to tell you do not a license to make fireworks in California or any other state, but you may not believe that either. LOL

Be careful here, You may purchase 1.3 in the state of Ohio with a 54 but it goes further than that. It has to be from a registered Ohio Dealer. Currently Kellners is "not" on that list. You can "not" use 1.3, close prox, flame, or 1.4 product without a state lead license. There is "no" storage of 1.3 in Ohio except from the selling dealers and a few long time storage possessors. There has been a long term moratorium for years.


"Legal" Storage and possession and of 1.4 fireworks is for 48 hours before they are to leave the state.

In order to legally use 1.4 or 1.3 a lead shooter license and permit are to be obtained.

Ohio residents may use their 54 to legally purchase 1.3 or 1.4 to be used from an "authorized Ohio vendor" and used at a shoot site that has both a licensed "Lead Shooter" and a permit provided that the product is on the list of products to be used and okay-ed by the AHJ.

There is no such thing as a "back yard" display in Ohio.


I would have to think that ANYBODY who is traveling down the road carrying 1.3 material in their vehicle, whether it is for commerce or pleasure use, is to abide by the DOT regulations and have a cdl and placard their vehicle. The placards are used to make a vehicle noticable that is carrying hazardous materials. They are used to make other drivers and/or emergency vehicles aware of what is being transported in your truck/car/tanker/ trailer/ or whatever vehicle it may be. Why should that matter if they are being transported in commerce or not? I do not think a person can drive with hazardous gas tanks in the back of their trucks legally without letting other know what is being transported, whether they are doing it for work or not, should not matter.

If your vehicle gets in an accident and is on fire, you are supposed to be marked so that when an emergency vehicle shows up they know what type of hazard is being transported. Im sure they don't care if you are doing it commercially or for pleasure use.

Anybody else want to way in on these thoughts? I know in NY if I were to drive with no placard and got pulled over with shells in the truck, id be in some serious stuff...

Incorrect. A 54 holder can transport 1.3 on roads without a CDL and Hazmat state dependent. To placard with out CDL and Hazmat is illegal.

You have to know the laws where you are going and traveling through. Look at the poor guy in DC that faces fines and jail time for having a spent shotgun shell in his vehicle.

Ohio doesn't seem too far off from Texas or Cali.

Glad I live PA and have my Ohio assistant lead anyway. Maybe I'll take the test for lead, close prox and flame this year since I have all the requirements needed.

Welcome to AMERICA.

[PyroJW]

There is a wealth of information from all parties as I am reading this. There are so many grey areas in what you can and can't do as far as being a hobbyist in a non commerce scenario, state to state varies it seems. It honestly does not stat very much information on this topic as a hobbyist. The in commerce is point blank if you are compensated then you must be placard. I am personally going to get my cdl hazmat so this is not a problem for me either way. I have read a lot of material the last few days trying to give my best opinion. Maybe a few others can read through these web pages I have listed below and weigh in there thoughts? The only thing I found stated was Transporters of Hazardous Materials (that require placarding)??? " Hazardous substances, as defined in 49 Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) §171.8,
transported in cargo tanks, portable tanks or hopper-type vehicles, with capacities in
excess of 3,500 water gallons; or any *QUANITY* of Division 1.1, 1.2 and 1.3 materials"

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/safety-security/eta/transphazmat.htm

http://www.phmsa.dot.gov/hazmat

http://www.txdot.gov

http://www.tdi.texas.gov/fire/fmlifirework.html

http://www.txdmv.gov/component/k2/item/88-txdmv-number

[martymower]

Thanks for the info.The link to the Texas laws helped. The definitions seem to exempt retail customers so I will just keep receipts with me showing sales tax paid. Our yearly family show is gitting bigger, the area has new houses, and this year many people came late maybe 30 total. Just double checking.

[PyroManiacs]

I would have to think that ANYBODY who is traveling down the road carrying 1.3 material in their vehicle, whether it is for commerce or pleasure use, is to abide by the DOT regulations and have a cdl and placard their vehicle.

Thats like saying all gun owners should have identification on their vehicle stating that they are carrying.

[pyro1361]

The object of having placards on your vehicle is to let other people know what your carrying, If there is a accident, wouldn't you want to know if the vehicle has explosives in it. It is giving the fire dept, emergency people heads up so they know what they are dealing with. I dont think this is even close to saying all gun owners should have identification on the vehicle.
I dont think anyone on here would like to stop at a accident to help someone and then find out there are explosives in the trunk when the car is on fire.

[rppyro]

I received my type 54 license one year ago, and when I had my interview, I specifically asked the atf guy about transporting them and using placards. he said placards are not necessary at all if you are not making a profit.

[PyroManiacs]

I guess if you do not mind being hassled by "The Man" on the highway for no reason, your good to go.

(Hey Authorities, Im carrying a firearm, let me put this here placard on my car so when I am being pulled over at gun-point and hassled, I can exercise my 2nd Amendment rights, and when I do that Ill have my firearm confiscated or be detained for resisting the authorities!) Just because they can!

In the state of Pennsylvania, you DO NOT need a license to open carry. My friend had his firearm illegally taken from him and has not received it back in over 4 months now. He was not doing anything to draw attention to himself either.

Because they can! Illegally AND get away with it.

[mike2255]

The object of having placards on your vehicle is to let other people know what your carrying, If there is a accident, wouldn't you want to know if the vehicle has explosives in it. It is giving the fire dept, emergency people heads up so they know what they are dealing with. I dont think this is even close to saying all gun owners should have identification on the vehicle.
I dont think anyone on here would like to stop at a accident to help someone and then find out there are explosives in the trunk when the car is on fire.


You took the words right out of my mouth. It should not matter if you are carrying explosives for pleasure or in commerce, you are still carrying explosives. You have to let others know that you have a potential danger to your vehicle and if there is an issue they should stay away. If your car is on fire and fireman respond, they have to be made aware of the explosives in the vehicle, whether its a camry, pickup or Budget Vehicle.

[rppyro]

Are you going to placard your Camry because you have a brick of firecrackers? Are you going to use placards because you bought a case of two stroke oil?
The title of the thread asks if it is necessary for noncommerce, and the answer is simply no, it is not necessary. At least in PA.

[PyroManiacs]

Are you going to placard your Camry because you have a brick of firecrackers? Are you going to use placards because you bought a case of two stroke oil?
The title of the thread asks if it is necessary for noncommerce, and the answer is simply no, it is not necessary. At least in PA.

To the point!

[mike2255]

But if the law states that "if you are carrying over 1000lbs 1.4 or carrying any 1.3 products a vehicle has to be placarded and driven by a driver with a CDL/hazmat" then that rule should apply for all vehicles, whether you are driving it for commerce or non-commerce, shouldn't matter.

[jerikastner]

even for 1.3 fireworks - consumers (who obviously have BATF permits) are exempt from needing a CDL, placards and DOT insurance. If any products are to be used in commerce (for sale/re-sale) then you must comply with all DOT regs.

[Pyro Nation]

First off...Id like to see someone fit 1000lbs of fireworks in a camry

[PyroManiacs]

First off...Id like to see someone fit 1000lbs of fireworks in a camry


That I would like to see!

[pyro1361]

Are you going to placard your Camry because you have a brick of firecrackers? Are you going to use placards because you bought a case of two stroke oil?
The title of the thread asks if it is necessary for noncommerce, and the answer is simply no, it is not necessary. At least in PA.

There is a huge difference from firecrackers to 3 inch Salutes. and no you wont placard for a brick of firecrackers its 1.4 and not over 1000lbs. and the 2 stroke oil That has nothing to do with this as for guns too.
The whole in commerce and non commerce is a joke, because most of the people that are doing shows and don't follow the DOT and FMCSA rules are just going to say " I didn't make any money on this, this is just a hobby". I was told right the mouth of DOT and FMCSA that is if any money exchanges hands for any type of show you are in Commerce.
So it doesn't matter if you don't make a penny on a show if a guy hands you money to put on a show for him your in commerce and that is what DOT and FMCSA told me.
ALL the DOT laws are the same in every state if you are in Commerce you need to follow all DOT FMCSA and PHMSA so you would need DOT Numbers Hazmat permit, msc-90 Drug program, training, 5mil Insurance, CDL with Hazmat for drivers, log books and the list goes on.
If your not in Commerce you don't need any of this.

[rppyro]

You said in an earlier reply that the purpose of placards is to let others know what you are carrying in case of an emergency. Well there are 1.4 placards as well as a placards for a bunch of other materials. (See the first reply by Dave) A five gallon gas can in the back of a truck could cause a disaster and so could a case of excaliburs.

I think commerce has more to do with money changing hands, than it does with making a profit. I was told accepting a Pepsi was reason enough to make your show commercial. Even if you paid for the entire show yourself and then donated the show to a church or township or whatever.

[pyro1361]

Really I had no clue there was Placards for other Things lol.

[Pyro Nation]

I still want to see 1000 lbs of 1.4 in a camry..lol

[pyromaniac]

Are you going to placard your Camry because you have a brick of firecrackers? Are you going to use placards because you bought a case of two stroke oil?
The title of the thread asks if it is necessary for noncommerce, and the answer is simply no, it is not necessary. At least in PA.

There is a huge difference from firecrackers to 3 inch Salutes. and no you wont placard for a brick of firecrackers its 1.4 and not over 1000lbs. and the 2 stroke oil That has nothing to do with this as for guns too.
The whole in commerce and non commerce is a joke, because most of the people that are doing shows and don't follow the DOT and FMCSA rules are just going to say " I didn't make any money on this, this is just a hobby". I was told right the mouth of DOT and FMCSA that is if any money exchanges hands for any type of show you are in Commerce.
So it doesn't matter if you don't make a penny on a show if a guy hands you money to put on a show for him your in commerce and that is what DOT and FMCSA told me.
ALL the DOT laws are the same in every state if you are in Commerce you need to follow all DOT FMCSA and PHMSA so you would need DOT Numbers Hazmat permit, msc-90 Drug program, training, 5mil Insurance, CDL with Hazmat for drivers, log books and the list goes on.
If your not in Commerce you don't need any of this.

I think any person that truely loves fireworks wouldn't be campaining on a pyro-related forum for more regulation. Any forum member that thinks other wise, only makes me wonder about your true intentions for being here.

[PGH_Pyro]

i think it's safe to say (and not paranoid) that the batfe/etc etc looks at the posts in here to make sure there's no questionable activity .
probably naive to think otherwise .

[PyroManiacs]

i think it's safe to say (and not paranoid) that the batfe/etc etc looks at the posts in here to make sure there's no questionable activity .
probably naive to think otherwise .


I think any person that truely loves fireworks wouldn't be campaining on a pyro-related forum for more regulation. Any forum member that thinks other wise, only makes me wonder about your true intentions for being here.



WOoooo Exactly!

[pyro1361]

I think any person that truely loves fireworks wouldn't be campaining on a pyro-related forum for more regulation. Any forum member that thinks other wise, only makes me wonder about your true intentions for being here.


I am not Campaining or Complaning about anything. And I love fireworks, I am just saying that there are rules to follow. And if you know my Intentions why don't you tell me what they are? And if the ATF or any other federal official is watching this so what I have nothing to hide. Federal officials watch everything on the internet.

[PGH_Pyro]

i think after the boston marathon thing and 9-11, obviously, they're monitoring anything pyro .

[mguerra]

I am at the shooter school put on by Extreme Pyro in Mansfield Texas right now. We spent the day in class and then the afternoon setting up a four minute Pyro musical which we are going to shoot in about an hour or so. In all of my reading of the Texas fireworks laws I was never able to discern that the state made any distinction between shooting in commerce and shooting as a hobby. A sergeant in the Mansfield police department flatly told us that all of the rules for a CDL with hazmat, placarding, DOT registration and so on do not apply if you are not in commerce. I have not seen that in writing but that is what he told us. We do need a BATF type 54 and a Texas State license to use 1.3 product, as well as a local permit which will probably also require insurance. I will continue to update for Texas as I learn more.

[displayfireworks1]

Thanks for the update post. I am glad to hear you found someone "Official" that makes it more believable to you. If you are not in commerce you do not need CDL placards etc.

[PyroJW]

Yes are President of Extreme did ask the question to sergeant Ken Hopkins he is with the Commercial vehicle enforcement unit of Mansfield, Texas and he point blank said if you are not in commerce than DOT registration and cdl hazmat does not apply to you. I did speak with the sergeant about the serious hobbyist, he advised that you do not exceed 1,000lbs. That can go two different ways, product weight and "Pyro weight" which it does stat you cannot carry more than 1,000lbs of 1.4 product or you must placard. You can also become a shooter for a company and be a "Responsible person". That also would allow you to buy product. You can shoot 1.3 product as a "demo" as long as you are not paid therefore a permit is not required by the state. It is best to check with your local AHJ though regardless as they may require a permit. Glad you made are shooters school, it was a permitted show and we did do a sign off for this show.500

[Blam Blam]

he advised that you do not exceed 1,000lbs. That can go two different ways, product weight and "Pyro weight" which it does stat you cannot carry more than 1,000lbs of 1.4 product or you must placard

I've seen a lot of confusion about that DOT rule. Please keep in mind that DOT rules only apply if you are in commerce. If you are in commerce and are hauling over 1,000 lbs (pretty sure this is gross or shipping weight, pyro or comp weight applies to storage) of 1.4 (assumes you are not also carrying 1.3 or 1.1) you must placard, have a CDL, insurance, etc. If you are in commerce and hauling less than 1,000 lbs of 1.4 you are not required to placard but, would need all the other stuff. If you are not in commerce, no placards.

About the worst thing you could do is to placard a vehicle (even though it may seem like a good idea) when you are not in commerce, don't have a CDL, insurance, route plan etc.

In regard to getting a CDL, it's easy enough to do. BUT, don't forget. You don't have a regular driver's license and a CDL, you have one or the other. If you have a CDL, the relevant rules, fines, alcohol limits, etc. apply all the time. If you get stopped with a CDL it's a lot easier to loose than a regular license.

[mguerra]

Texas update: The sticking point for using 1.3 product in Texas is insurance. It is relatively easy to get a BATF type 54 from the fed. It is relatively easy to get a Display Operators License from the state of Texas. For ANY use of 1.3 you need a permit from the state fire marshal based on the OK from the local fire authority. That is a minor PIA because you have to submit a site plan, method of barricading the firing site, and jump through a few other hoops. If you really want to shoot the 1.3 you can do all this. But the real sticker is that you MUST have insurance to get the permit. I called one insurance company and they cited a minimum premium of $3,500.00/ year. A representative in the state fire marshal's office told me that was typical. The insurance is required for a professional or a backyard show, and the premiums are the same in either case. I am going to inquire of my homeowners insurance to see if a rider can be purchased for a lower cost, but I shoot all my shows on other properties, so that may or may not fly. I am taking my written test for Display Operators License on Saturday April 26, but the whole thing may be moot if the insurance obstacle cannot be surmounted.
Stand by for further Texas updates.

[PyroManiacs]

Good Luck on your test!

[zmaster725]

Quoting Mguerra
For ANY use of 1.3 you need a permit from the state fire marshal based on the OK from the local fire authority. That is a minor PIA because you have to submit a site plan, method of barricading the firing site, and jump through a few other hoops. If you really want to shoot the 1.3 you can do all this. But the real sticker is that you MUST have insurance to get the permit.

The insurance is required for a professional or a backyard show

The above paragraph is almost identical for Indiana; however, a CDL is not needed for non commerce based transporting. Also, I have been told by an Indiana DOT Officer that since Indiana offers a hazmat endorsement for a chauffer license that is also allowed within Indiana. Even moreso, certain certifications from the Department of Homeland Security also will pass if they meet a certain level of Hazardous Material Handling.

For a public display, the insurance, site plan, local fire dept having jurisdiction approval and supervision is all required. Indiana requires a miniscule amount of Insurance, only $100,000 of coverage, however some cities or festivals may require up to a million. It helps to have a policy where coverage is only active when you are shooting.

For a private show its pretty much a free for all.