Type 54 app

[Jgasparas1]

I have a question if anyone can help. I am filling out my app and this question 13 (is state or local license or permit reqiuired) I live in Illinois (fireworks are illegal here) will I need to get a permit before filling out this app and sending it in??

[displayfireworks1]

Check “No” and send the application in. We just went through this in the state of Ohio. An ATF license to purchase 1.3 fireworks is not contingent upon getting any state certifications or permits. A most recent example I was consulted on involved an applicant applying for an ATF license while living in the state of Ohio. The ATF office told him they were going to deny the license because he did not have a State of Ohio certification to shoot fireworks. You have to be careful because twice they tried to convince him to voluntarily withdrawal the application. The strategy for us was to tell the local ATF office the application would not be withdrawn and for them to make a decision on it. We advised them if they denied the application based on the state certification, we would appeal the denial. The ATF has 90 days to make a decision on your application from the time they receive your application and payment. At the 85-day mark, they approved his ATF Type 54 license to purchase 1.3 fireworks and last I heard he still does not have a state certification. While you live Illinois , Nebraska or wherever you live, you are applying for a United States fireworks license not a state license. Thus, theoretically it does not matter what state you live in. Now that I have a Type 54 license, I can fly to Hawaii and buy fireworks if I wanted to.

[Jgasparas1]

Thanks! You have been GREAT help, especially with all the videos. Really helped me put on a better show this year!

[Jgasparas1]

1 more question. On the explosives storage magazine page of the application, do I sign on the bottom where it says prepared by or will the place I set up the contigency sign that? Thanks

[Jgasparas1]

Can I print the fd-258 form online?

[Rare_Breed]

Check “No” and send the application in. We just went through this in the state of Ohio. An ATF license to purchase 1.3 fireworks is not contingent upon getting any state certifications or permits. A most recent example I was consulted on involved an applicant applying for an ATF license while living in the state of Ohio. The ATF office told him they were going to deny the license because he did not have a State of Ohio certification to shoot fireworks. You have to be careful because twice they tried to convince him to voluntarily withdrawal the application. The strategy for us was to tell the local ATF office the application would not be withdrawn and for them to make a decision on it. We advised them if they denied the application based on the state certification, we would appeal the denial. The ATF has 90 days to make a decision on your application from the time they receive your application and payment. At the 85-day mark, they approved his ATF Type 54 license to purchase 1.3 fireworks and last I heard he still does not have a state certification. While you live Illinois , Nebraska or wherever you live, you are applying for a United States fireworks license not a state license. Thus, theoretically it does not matter what state you live in. Now that I have a Type 54 license, I can fly to Hawaii and buy fireworks if I wanted to.

Will he need a state license and permit to use the fireworks in his display? The 54 only covers buying and storage, correct?

[indianahx]

Will he need a state license and permit to use the fireworks in his display? The 54 only covers buying and storage, correct?



54 allows you to purchase 1.3g fireworks correct....
54 allows you to store in your mag or someones mag, correct....

54 does not allow you to shoot 1.3g, correct....

You would need to check with local laws about shooting....regardless if it's 1.4 or 1.3

[Jgasparas1]

I live in Illinois where fireworks are illegal ( to be honest I have been doing them for the past 12+ years anyways) I spend a pretty good amount also but want to move up to 1.3, just not sure if it is worth it since the laws are so strict here!

[Jgasparas1]

I only do fireworks on the 4th and I am actually thinking about renting private property in Indiana on the 4th since it is legal to shoot there. I would need to get the a permit for the 1.3 but as long as I get the owners permission I dont see the local permit being difficult to obtain.

[Rare_Breed]

I'd definitely follow state laws when using 1.3, while they might overlook the occasional consumer works going off... They're not likely going to overlook 1.3. The last thing you want is the bomb squad showing up at your party ;)

[displayfireworks1]

It looks like you live in Nebraska not Illinois ? Either way I am sure you will be fine on the ATF application

[brian_peterson]

Just remember you need a permit from a AHJ to legally shoot 1.3G in Nebraska, Indiana, Illinois, etc. As far as I know all states require some kind of permit to shoot off 1.3G legally. As I have said before in other posts the ATF will rarely come down on you. However, I personally would not risk your type 54.

[Rare_Breed]

Don't you have to prove to the ATF that the product was used in a legally licensed/permitted display? If you get your 54, get your storage, buy product and use it illegally I'm sure the ATF isn't going to be happy about it. Isn't that pretty much their whole role in this? To make sure it is stored and used properly?

Am I wrong to assume that:

becoming a licensed operator in the state your going to use the product
finding and buying EXTREMELY expensive insurance for the display
obtaining a permit from the state fire marshal

would be a much more daunting task than obtaining your 54? For a 54 you need a clean record, proper storage, and an understanding of what the ATF expects. That's not going to get you any of the 3 things I listed.

I only bring this up because it seems to me your under the assumption that if you get the ATF user permit, that is all you need to buy and USE professional display fireworks in your already illegal yearly 4th of july show. Again, it's one thing to use consumer products illegally, but when you start messing with the BATFE and the items that they regulate... there is a BIG difference.

Whatever you end up doing, good luck with it. Not trying to deter you, just trying to make sure you understand what your getting into.

[joewad]

Indiana application In-Process here. After getting thoroughly tired and frustrated by searching the web on Indiana requirements I give up. Question 13 of application: Does Indiana require license or permit for shooting 1.3 for personal use/hobbyist? Or can someone point me in the proper Internet direction? Joe

[CTPYRO]

If you are commerce then you would check off yes.... since you are not... then no

[Bazerk]

Don't you have to prove to the ATF that the product was used in a legally licensed/permitted display? If you get your 54, get your storage, buy product and use it illegally I'm sure the ATF isn't going to be happy about it. Isn't that pretty much their whole role in this? To make sure it is stored and used properly?

I was speaking to my local ATF agent about exactly this yesterday. I asked if I had to show a permit to prove that I fired the 1.3 and he said no. Your logs and purchase receipts are what they go by. He made it very clear that they do cross check your purchase receipts to your daily log book and if they dont jive your going to have problems. So if I buy 1.3 on 12/16/2015 and there is no entry in my magazine log for 12/16-12/17 then thats a red flag. If I show a withdraw from my magazine for those products then they assume that you did indeed fire the product off. I asked these question because in Daves video this exact scenario was talked about and almost deterred me from applying. I wasnt going to apply for permits to fire off the fireworks every time I wanted to shoot just for proof for the ATF.

[CTPYRO]

The problem though is that the ATF may want to see permits to know where the 1.3 was discharged. I mean you can't just buy a truck load of B.. or even a case of shells and just decide to fire them off. Maybe if you lived in PA where the laws for discharging fireworks varies from TWP to TWP but you are in Florida. Also lets say you don't get a permit.. your firing off B and the authorities show up... your ATF license won't really save you in this instance..... I'm not telling what you should do here... just advice

[Bazerk]

The problem though is that the ATF may want to see permits to know where the 1.3 was discharged. I mean you can't just buy a truck load of B.. or even a case of shells and just decide to fire them off. Maybe if you lived in PA where the laws for discharging fireworks varies from TWP to TWP but you are in Florida. Also lets say you don't get a permit.. your firing off B and the authorities show up... your ATF license won't really save you in this instance..... I'm not telling what you should do here... just advice

I agree with what your saying, however the ATF isnt really concerned with your local laws. It is for this reason that you dont need a permit to show them as proof of discharge. However, when and where you do discharge them is a risk you take with the local authorities if you chose to do so without a permit. The only thing the ATF is concerned with is where and when you buy the product, where it is stored if not being used and when it goes in and comes out of storage. They assume that if it leaves storage never to return that it was discharged by you. Where that takes place is no their concern is how I understood it as it was directly explained to me by my local ATF contact.

[CTPYRO]

That's really surprising to hear because you can't legally shoot 1.3 without a permit... that's just a fact. Granted it's not the ATF's job to know where and when you plan on shooting it but having the permits along with your records will at least instill faith in the ATF that you are shooting in and not selling it. I keep copies of my permits along with my receipts from purchases. I have heard from people I know that have had their 54 for a while and that the ATF have been asking for permits... I'm not sure if this is legit or not but still better to have it in your records

scott

[displayfireworks1]

The problem with Connecticut and some of those non-New York states in that area is, they are not enough private ATF license holders. While all of this is not dependent on what state you live in, the ATF catchment zone or whatever it is called for that part of United States may falsely believe certain things are true when they may not be. I helped a guy in that area that had his own magazine, the ATF supervisor in that area was delaying his approval because they just were not sure what to do. I called and advocated for him and told them , he did what he needs to do and he should be approved. They approved it. In certain parts of the United States the ATF Inspectors are just not used to seeing fireworks enthusiast apply for this license. This is one of the things I do is show people how to get through this procedure. Texas is another area, there is pyrotalk member on here that had his own magazine and everything, the ATF Inspector was not sure what to do so he called the State of Texas Fire Marshal and they bluffed the enthusiast into withdrawing his application. I had a guy in Ohio tell them he is not withdrawing his application and forced them to make a decision, they approved him.
People misinterpret communication with the ATF all the time. The ATF is like the police, they can ask you all the questions they can think of, its up to you if you want to answer them. I am still waiting to hear from one person that received a denial on their application for lack of permits or state certifications. I just do not hear of it. I am also still waiting to hear from a ATF license holder that was cited for not having a (any) state certification shooting fireworks for his own enjoyment. There are none that i know of.
If you have permits for shoots, save them and show them to the ATF during an renewal inspection, it is a good thing for sure. Is it a necessary thing for every fireworks purchase I doubt it. It always good to appear as a legitimate user of fireworks.

[Bazerk]

Either way, I will have answers from down here in FL over the next few months. I am trying to secure a storage magazine for myself. I am trying to avoid building one so I am looking for a 6ft cubed shipping container that I can then modify with ventilation and the hooded locks. If I cant find one soon, I will just build my magazine and call it a day. I do have one question for you guys that I planned on asking my local ATF guy. One of the requirements of having the mag is weekly inspections of the magazine. What are they looking for here? Does it have to be the license holder inspecting it or can I have a family member inspect it for me? In my case the magazine will be 2 hours away from my home but its in my cousins backyard. Im curious to know how that will work because I cant see me driving 4-5 hours every week to look at the magazine.

[Fire Art]

Add your cousin as an employee possessor and let them check on the magazine every week.

[BoomBad1]

Does anyone know the average time that it takes to get your license once you have had your interview? I met with the inspector a couple weeks ago and she said everything was good she just had to file her report but was not sure how long it would be before I received my license.

[displayfireworks1]

That is great you took the initiative to complete the process. Considering tomorrow is Federal Holiday you may get it by the end of the week. The time that elapses between the interview and receiving the license is all over the place and never consistent. Let us know when you receive it so we can congratulate you.

[CTPYRO]

Does anyone know the average time that it takes to get your license once you have had your interview? I met with the inspector a couple weeks ago and she said everything was good she just had to file her report but was not sure how long it would be before I received my license.

I think mine came within 2 weeks after my inspector finished his report total process was about 3 months from Application sent in to getting the permit for me

[dark1234]

Don't you have to prove to the ATF that the product was used in a legally licensed/permitted display? If you get your 54, get your storage, buy product and use it illegally I'm sure the ATF isn't going to be happy about it. Isn't that pretty much their whole role in this? To make sure it is stored and used properly?

Am I wrong to assume that:

becoming a licensed operator in the state your going to use the product
finding and buying EXTREMELY expensive insurance for the display
obtaining a permit from the state fire marshal

would be a much more daunting task than obtaining your 54? For a 54 you need a clean record, proper storage, and an understanding of what the ATF expects. That's not going to get you any of the 3 things I listed.

I only bring this up because it seems to me your under the assumption that if you get the ATF user permit, that is all you need to buy and USE professional display fireworks in your already illegal yearly 4th of july show. Again, it's one thing to use consumer products illegally, but when you start messing with the BATFE and the items that they regulate... there is a BIG difference.

Whatever you end up doing, good luck with it. Not trying to deter you, just trying to make sure you understand what your getting into.

Hi,

I'm an amateur 1.4 user researching the feasibility of 1.3 use in completely insured, permitted and and licensed private backyard firework shows. Here in WI I see many cities have a permit form for a small fee but the concerning thing to me as you mentioned and fairly hard information to obtain, is that 1-5M proof of liability or indemnity bond proof for the permit. I did see a link through the search result on pyrotalk that mentioned around $250 for insurance for a day shoot, but kind of wondering what I'm getting into planning on intangibles for a show next year?

[displayfireworks1]

In a way I'm glad to see you bring back a thread from 2016, that means you must be using the search function of pyrotalk. Over the years pyrotalk members have answered many common questions. In your case I usually suggest a fireworks enthusiast go one step at a time and not get overwhelmed and become frustrated. Start with first obtaining the ATF license and smaller 1.3 items, then see where it goes from there. The best time to pursue the ATF license and planning is during the non-July 4th season.

[Arclight]

Either way, I will have answers from down here in FL over the next few months. I am trying to secure a storage magazine for myself. I am trying to avoid building one so I am looking for a 6ft cubed shipping container that I can then modify with ventilation and the hooded locks. If I cant find one soon, I will just build my magazine and call it a day. I do have one question for you guys that I planned on asking my local ATF guy. One of the requirements of having the mag is weekly inspections of the magazine. What are they looking for here? Does it have to be the license holder inspecting it or can I have a family member inspect it for me? In my case the magazine will be 2 hours away from my home but its in my cousins backyard. Im curious to know how that will work because I cant see me driving 4-5 hours every week to look at the magazine.


Nope, you can have anyone check on your magazines every 7 days, and they DO NOT need to actually have the keys to open it. This was confirmed to me by two different ATF agents I have spoken to. What they want is someone checking for signs of forced entry, so that you can report it ASAP.